The Sword

[Jasonic]

cant be...Jason doesnt listen to any bands that are false metal or have a gimmick.

I like plenty of bands who have a gimmick.
The difference between you and I is that I can admit it when bands I like do have a gimmick.

You think a band that plays traditional doom is a gimmick.

I think a band who wears loin cloths and paints their faces is a gimmick.

You must not disagree too much, since you have changed your tune about viking metal recently following its popularity. You almost had a heart attack a couple weeks ago when I mentioned in public that it was one of your favorite genres.

 

[Jasonic]

It was hard for me to enjoy them on that tour. I think this has a lot to do with it though, they just aren't made for a stadium. Plus, stadium sound is usually shit. I would love to see them live on a intimate tour though.

Yep, exactly.
Kind of hard to get into a band at an arena show.

They are playing the Metro on Oct 23rd.

 

[AngraRULES]

If this is false, it's at least better than Killswitch.

Yeah, okay. Just as there's a lot of concerts in the midwest, every weekend...

I just checked The Sword based on this thread and how active it's been lately. I can respect it and I'm glad a lot of people like them. It's just not my cup of tea at all.

 

[Diabolik]

The difference b/w the Sword and other "false metal" bands is that the Sword didn't start out as a part of a different scene and then altered their sound to fit a different one.

Members of the Sword do not have metal roots, which is what irks many non-fans.

If you don't like Sabbath to begin with, they are an easy target.

I was going to say the same thing. Also trying to use Dio as an example as someone who wasnt in a metal act first....not the same thing. Times are different. Now there are bands who once were a different genre style but then changed to make a quick buck to another genre while that iron was hot. These are the same bands who will change again once metal becomes un-hip.

 

[dcowboys311]

They are playing the Metro on Oct 23rd.

Not anymore. All of their dates have been postponed. Sucks...was supposed to catch them tomorrow.

 

[Diabolik]

I like plenty of bands who have a gimmick.
The difference between you and I is that I can admit it when bands I like do have a gimmick.

You think a band that plays traditional doom is a gimmick.

I think a band who wears loin cloths and paints their faces is a gimmick.

You must not disagree too much, since you have changed your tune about viking metal recently following its popularity. You almost had a heart attack a couple weeks ago when I mentioned in public that it was one of your favorite genres.

I definetly think the rise of doom bands are a gimmick. Like I have stated before here....you make fun of bands for what they wear all the time and these doom bands all wear the 70's style clothes and have that 70's hair style going. Pretty much the same thing as wearing a costume. I think most newer acts playing this style is gimmicky....it seems because it is a genre you are into you become more defensive about it. How many of these new acts will be around in 5 years? How many will change thier style to something different once the rise in popularity declines.....I bet a whole lot of them. Same goes for any genre that has a reasurgeness.

 

[dcowboys311]

I definetly think the rise of doom bands are a gimmick. Like I have stated before here....you make fun of bands for what they wear all the time and these doom bands all wear the 70's style clothes and have that 70's hair style going. Pretty much the same thing as wearing a costume. I think most newer acts playing this style is gimmicky....it seems because it is a genre you are into you become more defensive about it. How many of these new acts will be around in 5 years? How many will change thier style to something different once the rise in popularity declines.....I bet a whole lot of them. Same goes for any genre that has a reasurgeness.

And I'm sure many people were saying that about bands like The Sword seven years ago. And look who's still around?

 

[AngraRULES]

I like plenty of bands who have a gimmick.
The difference between you and I is that I can admit it when bands I like do have a gimmick.

You think a band that plays traditional doom is a gimmick.

I think a band who wears loin cloths and paints their faces is a gimmick.

You must not disagree too much, since you have changed your tune about viking metal recently following its popularity. You almost had a heart attack a couple weeks ago when I mentioned in public that it was one of your favorite genres.

Two questions for you, Jason. Out of curiosity, do you consider the whole black-metal genre a gimmick? (Considering their music, themes, outfits, attitude, etc.)

And two - So in other words, you are agreeing that bands in the so-called "Rise of Traditional Metal" or whatever the hell they want to call bands like White Wizzard and stuff, a gimmick?

 

[Jasonic]

Ok - I will leave it at this.
This is just MY opinion.......

To me, gimmick bands are ones who rely more on aesthetics than musical ability to make an impact. Take second wave black metal. There are MANY talentless bands who made an impact for MANY reasons, where musical ability was indeed NOT one of them. (Ever hear early MAYHEM for example???)

On the flipside, take first wave black metal (There are only THREE bands in this genre, and that's VENOM, MERCYFUL FATE, and BATHORY). Sure, image was a BIG part of ALL three bands, but these three bands were SOLID as hell and wrote some of the most important albums in the history of heavy metal.

@ Bob - Sure, I agree that the doom bands who wear the paisly shirts and bell bottom pants are a gimmick (IE - Witchcraft comes to mind). As far as the Sword, they are pretty straight up t-shirts and jeans, never really seen 70s groovy clothes on em, but I know what you mean . I just don't think they are one of them.

Even still though, if a band does dress like this (OK - two guilty doom bands that just came to mind are CATHEDRAL and ELECTRIC WIZARD), as long as they have the chops, it's more of an honest representation of obvious influences. Furhtermore, it's not like wearing bell bottoms or Greg Brady shirts will get you commercial attention (or laid!)

Take Lordi, GWAR, and SlipKnot. Their gimmick is for obvious mainstream attraction and attention, esp directed at the impressionable youth.

As for viking metal??? I just don't care for most of it.
I understand that the image goes hand in hand with the lyrical content.

I suppose to me the difference between the doom bands who dress the "image" is that its still more about the music than "dressing" a part.

One final thought-
Bottom line is EVERY band has an image or gimmick. Hell, a band logo is an image right? You can more times than not decifer a band's genre by logo alone.

I will fully admit that the SWORD falls into the "hipster" bucket, and I am fine with that for one reason: I think they write some of the catchiest throw-back doom metal out there, and they get better with each release.

 

[Jasonic]

Not anymore. All of their dates have been postponed. Sucks...was supposed to catch them tomorrow.

Oh really????
It is still on the Metro site.

Oh well, hopefully next time they will tour with better bands.
Karma to Burn was on this tour.
I am not terribly keen on all instrumental bands.

 

[Diabolik]

Oh really????
It is still on the Metro site.

Oh well, hopefully next time they will tour with better bands.
Karma to Burn was on this tour.
I am not terribly keen on all instrumental bands.

it is on Simon's homepage....blabbermouth. the whole tour is cancelled.

 

[dcowboys311]

Oh really????
It is still on the Metro site.

Oh well, hopefully next time they will tour with better bands.
Karma to Burn was on this tour.
I am not terribly keen on all instrumental bands.

Nevermind, I'm dumb. It's their European tour that is postponed.

On the other hand, your black metal assessment is so unbelievably wrong...but that would require a separate thread to go through.

 

[AngraRULES]

it is on Simon's homepage....blabbermouth.

Can I hear a ZING!!

 

[Pellaz]

Not anymore. All of their dates have been postponed. Sucks...was supposed to catch them tomorrow.

Crap, I gave away two pairs of tickets for that show on the air, too.

 

[dcowboys311]

it is on Simon's homepage....blabbermouth. the whole tour is cancelled.

LMAO

 

[Jasonic]

it is on Simon's homepage....blabbermouth. the whole tour is cancelled.

How did I miss that then!!!!!!!!

Glad to hear it was just the Euro tour that was canceled. I might have to see if I can make it.

 

[Jasonic]

On the other hand, your black metal assessment is so unbelievably wrong...but that would require a separate thread to go through.

Fair enough.
I admit to not being an expert of the genre.

I have had though in my collection throughout the years many Black metal classics (Enslaved - Frost, Dimmu - For all Tid, Immortal - Pure Holocaust, DarkThrone, etc, etc.) A lot of it had all the right elements, but not the best songwriting in my opinion. Seems like most of the longer running black metal bands seasoned better with age.

I admit to not being an expert in the genre, so I am sure you could probably cite 20 amazing second wave BM albums I never heard. Just my overall assessment that there are a LOT of bad BM albums.

 

[sh0kr0k]

Might want to at least give it a listen -before- passing judgement, reviews aren't everything. If you still dont' like them after hearing them that's perfectly fine but..let your ears do the thinking, not some schmuck reviewer who thinks he knows better than you.

Not that it matters, but you missed the entire point of my comment. Thanks for setting me straight anyway.

 

[dcowboys311]

Fair enough.
I admit to not being an expert of the genre.

I have had though in my collection throughout the years many Black metal classics (Enslaved - Frost, Dimmu - For all Tid, Immortal - Pure Holocaust, DarkThrone, etc, etc.) A lot of it had all the right elements, but not the best songwriting in my opinion. Seems like most of the longer running black metal bands seasoned better with age.

I admit to not being an expert in the genre, so I am sure you could probably cite 20 amazing second wave BM albums I never heard. Just my overall assessment that there are a LOT of bad BM albums.

Eh yeah, I don't really expect you to be a 'kvlt tr00 black metal' kind of guy. My criticism was more directed towards that accuracy of what you wrote as opposed to your distaste for some bands. Not really sure where you got the idea that there are only 3 first wave black metal bands, but Bulldozer, Sarcofago, Blasphemy, Celtic Frost, even some early Sodom all fit that tag.

As for Mayhem being a gimmick band...can't say I agree with that either. Dead had all of the characteristics of being someone who was honestly mentally disturbed, not someone trying to pimp his band.


Also it looks like The Sword DID in fact cancel their dates. Drummer quit.

 

[nomisofsiman]

I definetly think the rise of doom bands are a gimmick. Like I have stated before here....you make fun of bands for what they wear all the time and these doom bands all wear the 70's style clothes and have that 70's hair style going. Pretty much the same thing as wearing a costume. I think most newer acts playing this style is gimmicky....it seems because it is a genre you are into you become more defensive about it. How many of these new acts will be around in 5 years? How many will change thier style to something different once the rise in popularity declines.....I bet a whole lot of them. Same goes for any genre that has a reasurgeness.

What rise of doom bands are we talking about? Doom has always been super underground.

On the flipside, take first wave black metal (There are only THREE bands in this genre, and that's VENOM, MERCYFUL FATE, and BATHORY). Sure, image was a BIG part of ALL three bands, but these three bands were SOLID as hell and wrote some of the most important albums in the history of heavy metal.

I sense you don't like Celtic Frost, because I would definitely put them in that category. They're also known for being a major influence on later black metal bands. I still have trouble coming to grips with Mercyful Fate/King Diamond being black metal. Sure, lyrically I can see it, but musically they're entirely different than pretty much any band that's ever been considered black metal. To me, they've always been a classic metal band, but with darker themes and image.

Take Lordi, GWAR, and SlipKnot. Their gimmick is for obvious mainstream attraction and attention, esp directed at the impressionable youth.

You're forgetting the original gimmick band, Kiss. At least in Lordi and possibly Gwar's case, it was a complete replication of Kiss in terms of the costume and such.