The Sword

[Jasonic]

@ Bob - yeah, name 5 doom bands that you truly believe are gimmick bands that won't be around in 5 years?
Maybe you are lumping in hipster drone type stuff like Boris and Sunn 0)))) into the mix.

@ Simon - I love Celtic Frost, but they were always more on the gothic / avante garde side of things to me.
To be honest, I would say CF is the first "dark metal" band, giving rise to bands like Paraside Lost, My Dying Bride, etc.

Sure, musically Venom and MF don't sound like the black metal we know today, but they laid the groundwork lyrically and aesthetically.

 

[General Zod]

@ Bob - Sure, I agree that the doom bands who wear the paisly shirts and bell bottom pants are a gimmick (IE - Witchcraft comes to mind). As far as the Sword, they are pretty straight up t-shirts and jeans, never really seen 70s groovy clothes on em, but I know what you mean . I just don't think they are one of them.

I think people fans place too much emphasis on image, both pro and con. I have no problem with a band who cultivates an image that compliments their sound, such as Witchcraft in paisley and bell bottoms. Actually, I kind of like. I grew up with bands who all "looked the part" and I have no problem with it. I think it only becomes a gimmick when it steals focus from the music. I suspect we agree on this point, I'm merely throwing in my two cents.

 

[Jasonic]

You're forgetting the original gimmick band, Kiss. At least in Lordi and possibly Gwar's case, it was a complete replication of Kiss in terms of the costume and such.

Yep, I love KISS. Probably the first band ever I would say I was an actual "fan" of. No denying their gimmick. They have become a cultural phenomenon which may never be repeated.

 

[Jasonic]

I think people fans place too much emphasis on image, both pro and con. I have no problem with a band who cultivates an image that compliments their sound, such as Witchcraft in paisley and bell bottoms. Actually, I kind of like. I grew up with bands who all "looked the part" and I have no problem with it. I think it only becomes a gimmick when it steals focus from the music, ala Lordi, Gwar, Kiss, etc. I suspect we agree on this point, I'm merely throwing in my two cents.

Yep, exactly.
I mean most of us here got into metal in the 80s.
Were Priest and Maiden wearing jeans and t shirts on stage?
Hell no!
It was leather and spandex. Definitely an image.

A gimmick is a lot more than image, it's a schtick (SP?) to get attention.

It is definitely a grey area, in which EVERY genre has it's guilty parties.

There are amazing bands who truly look the part (IE - Saint Vitus for doom, Immortal for black metal, *fillintheblank* for viking metal, etc). Though there are always the handful of bands who come along who may have wavering credibility which are targets for non-fans of the genre.

As I said, getting back on topic, much of the hatred for the Sword stems from their roots in more of the hipster indie rock scene. Though, what is important to me, is as a band called The Sword, they have made three great albums, and have grown and expanded with each release.

 

[Jasonic]

@ Bob (Diabolik) -
Riddle me this, since I know you are a fan of the genre.
What do you think of the retro thrash bands then?
Is it a gimmick or are they just trying to pay homage to their influential roots?

Little of A, Little of B?

 

[nomisofsiman]

@ Simon - I love Celtic Frost, but they were always more on the gothic / avante garde side of things to me.
To be honest, I would say CF is the first "dark metal" band, giving rise to bands like Paraside Lost, My Dying Bride, etc.

Sure, musically Venom and MF don't sound like the black metal we know today, but they laid the groundwork lyrically and aesthetically.

Fair enough in terms of Celtic Frost. Though I do think they have some influence over black metal.

Actually with Venom I can see influence they had on the overall black metal sound. I'm not saying all of their sound, but in terms of playing fast, were raw and heavy they definitely have an influence in addition to their lyrics and aesthetics.