The UM New Religion Thread

[speed]

This is an entirely blasphemous thread for those believers of whatever god, wood sprite, or vague entity out there. So please forgive a godless pagan like myself. And I dont know if this thread will work.

Upon perusing many of our threads, religion seems to be at the center point of many a discussion. Which got me thinking, with all of these ideas and debates over religion we've had, wouldnt it be interesting if we (posters at UM) created our own religion; or, created the best and most logical religion? We can be like Mirandola, and condense all religions into one, or create an entirely new one. I think it would be fun. There's much to consider:

First, an idea of creation must be settled upon (or, a total disregard for creation must be settled upon). There's the middle-eastern montheistic creator god, pagan creation stories, eastern (Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist) and Mayan circular creation, Confucian atheism, scientific explanations or big bang theories, even alien colonization like old L. Ron, etc. Shall this creation-god be good and evil?

Second, we must come up with a history, some sort of spiritual or intellectual enlightenment story to provide followers with a guide or path for their enlightenment.

Third, we need a defined set of beliefs to follow, and some end to follow: shall there be a heaven, nirvana, etc? Is there a hell or threat of being reborn as a fly, to make the end more attractive?

Fourth, a code of ethics, morals, way of life, or wise aphorisms must be devised, to guide followers towards this path of whatever end is devised.

Fifth, we need to settle on some form of organizational (or none at all) structure for our religion.

Sixth, we need a set of symbols, that provide certain messages and meanings to our followers and non-followers.

Seventh, we need to get this religion approved by the United States government to receive tax breaks and cheap wine (kidding).


So please post thoughts and ideas. And again, I am sorry for both the ridiculous nature of this thread, and its obvious blasphemy.

 

[derbeder]

creating a religion isn't exactly a philosophical activity.

 

[speed]

creating a religion isn't exactly a philosophical activity.

Isnt it? What does one call theology? Its a ridiculous idea, so im fine if it doesnt work or is closed down.

 

[derbeder]

coming up with a creation story, some set of symbols, and a made-up history etc. don't require much in the way of articulating a position and considering arguments for and against it.

theology concerns the interpretation of holy texts for the most part. at least familiarity with such texts is presupposed. it isn't concerned, as far as i know, with philosophical questions about the existence of a god, and the basis of morals etc., which may be thought about without assuming the validity of some holy text.

 

[Έρεβος]

creating a religion isn't exactly a philosophical activity.

Meaningful "Religion" is nothing but philosophy, the literal/absolutist supernatural bs of the most prominent modern religions is the only non-philosophical aspect.

 

[speed]

Meaningful "Religion" is nothing but philosophy, the literal/absolutist supernatural bs of the most prominent modern religions is the only non-philosophical aspect.

Agreed.

But instead of arguing about it, lets begin making a new religion. I mean, I would be interested in what turns out.

 

[metal_wrath]

This is an entirely blasphemous thread for those believers of whatever god, wood sprite, or vague entity out there. So please forgive a godless pagan like myself. And I dont know if this thread will work.

Upon perusing many of our threads, religion seems to be at the center point of many a discussion. Which got me thinking, with all of these ideas and debates over religion we've had, wouldnt it be interesting if we (posters at UM) created our own religion; or, created the best and most logical religion? We can be like Mirandola, and condense all religions into one, or create an entirely new one. I think it would be fun. There's much to consider:

First, an idea of creation must be settled upon (or, a total disregard for creation must be settled upon). There's the middle-eastern montheistic creator god, pagan creation stories, eastern (Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist) and Mayan circular creation, Confucian atheism, scientific explanations or big bang theories, even alien colonization like old L. Ron, etc. Shall this creation-god be good and evil?

Second, we must come up with a history, some sort of spiritual or intellectual enlightenment story to provide followers with a guide or path for their enlightenment.

Third, we need a defined set of beliefs to follow, and some end to follow: shall there be a heaven, nirvana, etc? Is there a hell or threat of being reborn as a fly, to make the end more attractive?

Fourth, a code of ethics, morals, way of life, or wise aphorisms must be devised, to guide followers towards this path of whatever end is devised.

Fifth, we need to settle on some form of organizational (or none at all) structure for our religion.

Sixth, we need a set of symbols, that provide certain messages and meanings to our followers and non-followers.

Seventh, we need to get this religion approved by the United States government to receive tax breaks and cheap wine (kidding).


So please post thoughts and ideas. And again, I am sorry for both the ridiculous nature of this thread, and its obvious blasphemy.

Funny, I was just thinking about The Book of Urantia earlier... Therefore I hereby recommend the book of Urantia....however I refuse to take you seriously

edit: just read the last sentence of your post

 

[Έρεβος]

Agreed.

But instead of arguing about it, lets begin making a new religion. I mean, I would be interested in what turns out.

Okay, lets start with creation!


The Aztec is my favorite:

The Aztec narrative describing creation proceeds with an Earth mother, "Coatlique", the Lady of the Skirt of Snakes. She was decorated with skulls, snakes, and lacerated hands. At first she was whole without cracks in her body -- a perfect monolith (a totality of intensity and self-containment, yet her features were square and decapitated). Coatlique was first impregnated by an obsidian knife and gave birth to Coyolxauhqui, goddess of the moon, and to a group of male offspring, who became the stars.

Then one day Coatlique found a ball of feathers, which she tucked into her bosom. When she looked for it later, it was gone, at which time she realized that she was again pregnant. Her children, the moon and stars did not believe her story. Ashamed of their mother, they resolved to kill her. During the time that they were plotting her demise, Coatlique gave birth to the fiery god of war, Huitzilopochtli. With the help of a fire serpent, he destroyed his brothers and sister, murdering them in a rage. He beheaded Coyolxauhqui and threw her body into a deep gorge in a mountain, where it lies dismembered forever.

This precipitated a great civil war in heaven which crumbled to pieces. Coatlique fell and was fertilized, while her children were torn apart by fratricide and them scattered and disjointed throughout the universe. Who remained were Ometecutli and his wife Omecihuatl that created life. Their children were: Xipe Totec the god of spring, Huitzilopochtli the Sun god, Quetzalcoatl the "light one" and "plumed serpent", and Tezcatlipoca, the "dark one" and god of night and sorcery.

Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca saw that whatever they created was eaten by Coatlique who floated in the abyss eating everything with her many mouths. To stop her, they changed into two serpents and descended into the water. One grabbed the goddess by the arms while the other grabbed her by the legs, and before she could resist they pulled her apart into different pieces. Her head and shoulders became the earth and the lower part of her body the sky.

The other deities were angry at what the two had done and decided, as compensation for her dismemberment, to allow her to provide the necessities for people to survive; so from her hair they created trees, grass, and flowers; caves, fountains, and wells from her eyes; rivers from her mouth; hills and valleys from her nose; and mountains from her shoulders.

Still the goddess was often unhappy and the people could hear her crying in the night. They knew she wept because of her thirst for human blood, and that she would not provide food from the soil until she drank. So the gift of human hearts is given her. She who provides sustenance for human lives demands human lives for her own sustenance.



The pagan creation stories are always the best.

 

[speed]

Funny, I was just thinking about The Book of Urantia earlier... Therefore I hereby recommend the book of Urantia....however I refuse to take you seriously

edit: just read the last sentence of your post

I have a terrible sense of humor.

 

[Magrathean]

creating a religion isn't exactly a philosophical activity.

Isn't it? If this thread works, one person will propose something (as somebody did with the aztec creation story above) and another will say why they'd rather have some other creation story and there'd be a fairly-interesting (at least) debate about which creation story is best and why. I would call that some sort of philosophy.

From another angle, the word 'philosophy' originally meant "love for knowledge" (not the silly thing it has become), and we can all pretend to have more doubts about the creation of the universe and everything else than we do and start working together to produce an interesting (if not extremely-amusing) (and, yes, silly) story.


If there's going to be a god, it should either be a bum (i.e. create the universe and then leave it to fall into chaos by itself) or stir disorder wherever it can just for the heck of it (like some twisted version of Loki). If there will be many gods, i say they should all work against each-other (but not like good gods vs bad gods or side A vs side B; more like a free-for-all thing where every god tries to wreck the creations of all the other gods so that its own creations will prevail). Oh, and they should be genderless or something.

 

[metal_wrath]

Well...I don't see the point of this discussion, prob cause it has none. Why not create a thread about something which has a real life purpose... Why not talk of creating a future Utopia, or some kind of Cyber Futuristic Techno-Mecha-Plasma-Gun-Wielding-Hybrid-Mega-Super-Robot/Space-Combat-Vehicle....

 

[judas69]

Well...I don't see the point of this discussion, prob cause it has none.

Yeah, speed is beyond us all sometimes.

Why not talk of creating a future Utopia, or some kind of Cyber Futuristic Techno-Mecha-Plasma-Gun-Wielding-Hybrid-Mega-Super-Robot/Space-Combat-Vehicle....

Now that's a pretty cool vehicle. The "Super" really got my attention.

 

[speed]

Isn't it? If this thread works, one person will propose something (as somebody did with the aztec creation story above) and another will say why they'd rather have some other creation story and there'd be a fairly-interesting (at least) debate about which creation story is best and why. I would call that some sort of philosophy.

From another angle, the word 'philosophy' originally meant "love for knowledge" (not the silly thing it has become), and we can all pretend to have more doubts about the creation of the universe and everything else than we do and start working together to produce an interesting (if not extremely-amusing) (and, yes, silly) story.


If there's going to be a god, it should either be a bum (i.e. create the universe and then leave it to fall into chaos by itself) or stir disorder wherever it can just for the heck of it (like some twisted version of Loki). If there will be many gods, i say they should all work against each-other (but not like good gods vs bad gods or side A vs side B; more like a free-for-all thing where every god tries to wreck the creations of all the other gods so that its own creations will prevail). Oh, and they should be genderless or something.

Yeah, you get the intention of the thread. And there are oodles of creation stories from every possible realm. Some mesh with each other, and some are very much at odds with each other.

I'll offer some Buddhist creation stories:

"Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it." And in regard to ignoring the question of the origin of life the Buddha has said "And why are they undeclared by me? Because they are not connected with the goal, are not fundamental to the holy life. They do not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calming, direct knowledge, self-awakening, Unbinding. That's why they are undeclared by me."

The Buddha compared the question of the origin of life to the parable of the poison arrow: a man is shot with a poison arrow, but before the doctor pulls it out, he wants to know who shot it (arguing the existence of God), where the arrow came from (where the universe and/or God came from) why that person shot it (why God created the universe). If the man keeps asking these questions before the arrow is pulled out, the Buddha reasoned, he will die before he gets the answers.

The Buddha actually poked fun at the idea of a Creator God, according to the Sutra of Hundred Parables (¦Ê ³ë ¸g). In this Sutra, he told approximately one hundred humorous stories to his disciples during a sermon. One of the stories told by the Lord Buddha is as follows (Chapter 61):

Other religions said, "The Brahma ('God' in Saskrit) is the father of all sentient beings. He created everything in the Universe and therefore He is the Lord of everything." Thus, one of His disciples went to see God and said, "I can also create things in the Universe because I am your student".

God replied, "This is stupid. Don't even think of it! You cannot create anything at all!"

God's disciple did not listen and went ahead to create something. When God saw what his disciple had created, He bursted into laughter, "HA! HA! See what you had created? The head is too big! The neck is too small! The hand is too big and the arm too short! And look at the feet: a big feet with a very short leg! What you had created is a terrible monster."

 

[BloodSword]

Speed, seems to have many good ideas for thread starters. I commend him for his efforts. I think he (for the fun of it) wants to give us something to think about and create. Using your MIND/BRAIN. It's certainly a good mental excercise.

 

[Norsemaiden]

I am going to be very practical about this! We would have to decide what we want to tell people to think/believe in and what we want to tell others to do. As the founders of the religion we do this cynically, as we never have to believe any of it ourselves. What behaviours are there that you would like to see changed? Make these changes part of the religion.

Some religions are created purely to help ones own people prosper. Is that what we want?

Some religions are created by an elite for the purpose of social control (anything with caste as a key factor achieves this).

Some religions are created to make other people behave in a way that is useful to your own people, such as a suicidal religion (Christianity) or a violent religion that you give to some group and you think you can direct them against an enemy while staying safe yourselves (Islam).

Even if you don't agree that any of this has happened - it could now! Since you are devising a new faith, these are some options.

 

[speed]

I am going to be very practical about this! We would have to decide what we want to tell people to think/believe in and what we want to tell others to do. As the founders of the religion we do this cynically, as we never have to believe any of it ourselves. What behaviours are there that you would like to see changed? Make these changes part of the religion.

Some religions are created purely to help ones own people prosper. Is that what we want?

Some religions are created by an elite for the purpose of social control (anything with caste as a key factor achieves this).

Some religions are created to make other people behave in a way that is useful to your own people, such as a suicidal religion (Christianity) or a violent religion that you give to some group and you think you can direct them against an enemy while staying safe yourselves (Islam).

Even if you don't agree that any of this has happened - it could now! Since you are devising a new faith, these are some options.

Indeed, this can be a cynical or a truly beneficial experience. There's all this discussion of Nietszche going down, so I figured, wouldnt it be interesting if we became the new gods--to experience the process of creating and developing a new set of morals, religion, everything. And who knows, if we develop something we really like (and one doesnt feel too blasphemous about it), perhaps we can find a flock of followers.