the USA thread -

[Wolfman Von Jones]

Salam: You have to understand that I dont in any way, shape, form support McCain. I agree with you that almost anything is better than that asshat bein in office, but I guess I'm jaded b/c Illinois politics are so damn corrupt that I have a really hard time supporting anyone who wet their feet here. I feel like people got caught up in 'democrats will fix anything that is going wrong in our country b/c it's all the republicans fault' ideology and that's plain stupid.

Rahvin: I agree with you 100% that there is no connection, I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of the black population here in Chicago. Propaganda? Maybe, he does support a woman right to terminate at any stage (which I believe in most cases is wrong), if you read the actual conversation (the now famous Joe the Plumber issue) he stated that business with a revenue of over 250k will be taxed, unless he meant profit that is the majority of small businesses.

DoC: No I was talking about his general stance on abortion ever since he got elected senator here in IL. I'm actually not familiar with the youtube video. Read the reply to Rahvin, specifically the end.

 

[Lina]

if you read the actual conversation (the now famous Joe the Plumber issue) he stated that business with a revenue of over 250k will be taxed, unless he meant profit that is the majority of small businesses.

He did mean net profit -- $250,000 after deducting all expenses: employees' wages, supplies, etc. Joe, you, I, and anyone else should be so lucky. 98 percent of small business owners make less than $250,000.

And as an aside, "raising taxes" in this case means taxing only the dollars above $250,000 at the pre-Bush level of 35% instead of 33%. Heaven forbid.

 

[rahvin]

Propaganda? Maybe, he does support a woman right to terminate at any stage (which I believe in most cases is wrong),

Let me clarify why I mentioned propaganda. There's always been a lot of confusion and misinterpretation on the matter of abortion, and even among doctors and scholars it's hard to find perfect agreement on a number of things not just limited to "when does life begin?" or some other useless doozy. For instance, some say that the result of a botched abortion is a living human being equipped with fundamental rights as long as there is any form of electrical activity going on in the brain, while others disagree. Some reply that life as an object of attention on the part of the laws and the rights that apply to citizens only begins when you're out of the womb anyway, so no matter if it's legal to perform a specific surgery or not - they say - if you're not "giving birth" then whatever we pulled out of you is not a baby.
People have the right to make up their own mind on this subject and its moral/legal implications, and I'm not advocating any position or defending Obama's. I'm saying that it's easy to wrap any politician's stance in blanket statements, because the matter of contention is so intricated that you'd have to go look at every specific case to (maybe) understand why it was ruled in a certain way. If it's all very technical, to put a label on Obama's ideas and call him "pro-full term abortion" without considering circumstance is what someone would do to discredit. Hence the propaganda remark.
I daresay it's enough to discredit a politician to attribute to him any form of "absolutely yes/absolutely no" opinion on this subject and it would be better to judge based on the bills they want or don't want passed. Otherwise it looks like you're saying that McCaine wants to ban abortion in every single state and Obama wants to kill our babbies.

 

[brownden]

canada wins

 

[hyena]

I'm saying that it's easy to wrap any politician's stance in blanket statements

Yes, yes, especially when you're talking newborns.

 

[DisplayofCharacter]

Yes, yes, especially when you're talking newborns.

How is babby formed?

 

[hyena]

all together now, say "oocite".

 

[Defiance]

Nice article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/30/opinion/30herbert.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Add up the damage&st=cse

 

[La Rocque]

Here in the USA ...
the white man makes the guns(business is business)
the white man sells the guns(make money ... money = god)
rapper raps about guns(congressional hearings) -

 

[La Rocque]

Good riddance to George 'mofo' Bush -

 

[La Rocque]

Best wishes and good luck to Barack Obama

 

[Defiance]

^ Indeed, he'll need it . I guess he'll make a good administration, then again, how can it not be better than Bush's?

It's like:

St.Anger:Bush:: Death Magnetic:Obama



Anyhow, my family is/was quite excited the whole inauguration stuff, both my dad and sister had Obama shirts .

 

[plintus]

^ Indeed, he'll need it

I don't know what luck has to do with that now, but he has very intense 100 days ahead of him - hopefully there will be something good by then.

I was and still am trying to ignore all hysteria (those fucking "What's your pledge" videos done it for me last night) and really hope that change everyone was talking about wasn't a publicity stunt. First I'd like to see Guantanamo closed and troops pulled from Iraq - that's what he was promising to do first of all.

 

[Lina]

I ... really hope that change everyone was talking about wasn't a publicity stunt. First I'd like to see Guantanamo closed and troops pulled from Iraq - that's what he was promising to do first of all.

This isn't a direct response to what you're saying -- just a good segue.

I've always thought his slogan of "change" was genius because it can mean different things to different people, thereby appealing to vast cross-sections of people.

Some people thought it meant change from the Bush administration. Others thought it meant change from "politics as usual," i.e. he'd magically make everyone in Congress work together. It could also mean a change from years of old, rich, out-of-touch presidents to having a young, hip, modern, and tech-savvy one.

And finally, I firmly believe that it was a brilliant way to appeal to those who considered his race an asset without alienating those who would be turned off by his race. It was subtle enough that the average white person in middle America who is not used to thinking about race issues wouldn't even notice it. But for me, having grown up in a majority-black area and having dealt with race issues my whole life, it was the most immediate connection I made. I remember being startled when I realized other people had entirely different interpretations of "change."

 

[Defiance]

I don't know what luck has to do with that now, but he has very intense 100 days ahead of him - hopefully there will be something good by then.

I was and still am trying to ignore all hysteria (those fucking "What's your pledge" videos done it for me last night) and really hope that change everyone was talking about wasn't a publicity stunt. First I'd like to see Guantanamo closed and troops pulled from Iraq - that's what he was promising to do first of all.

Yeah I hope that they get out of Iraq too, but I don't think that'll happen anytime soon.

 

[Naglfar]

Yeah I hope that they get out of Iraq too, but I don't think that'll happen anytime soon.

Sooner than you think. Petraeus is lurking in Central Asia for a reason. They're going to wind down Iraq within the next year, maybe a token presence by 2011 to keep Ahmedinejad honest, so they can try the surge out in Afghanistan...

I think the recession might be a mixed blessing for the U.S. Obama has the advantage of all this political capital, while Iran, Russia, and Venezuela are going to be quieter for the near future (well, maybe not Russia, they're like a poker player who always aggressively bluffs), reducing the amount of friction we saw day-to-day with Bush. It's a tough 100 days domestically, but in foreign policy he might be facing a better environment than his predecessor. Gas prices aren't going to go up that much when no one can pay for it.

 

[Lina]

He sure didn't waste any time:

Obama Seeks 120-Day Halt to Legal Proceedings at Guantanamo

 

[La Rocque]

^ That's great, now get out of Cuba, return Guantanamo to Cubans,
then open diplomatic relations and travel to Cuba
What would be best is to remove all USA military personal from every foreign country we are now located -

 

[plintus]

 

[Defiance]

Sooner than you think. Petraeus is lurking in Central Asia for a reason. They're going to wind down Iraq within the next year, maybe a token presence by 2011 to keep Ahmedinejad honest, so they can try the surge out in Afghanistan...

Yeah. but not soon enough. The "damage" is "done." Get it?

^ That's great, now get out of Cuba, return Guantanamo to Cubans,
then open diplomatic relations and travel to Cuba
What would be best is to remove all USA military personal from every foreign country we are now located -

Yeah, Castro is pretty much dead so Obama we'll be quite stupid if he doesn't start relationships with Cuba.

@ Plintus: