The West will never win the hearts and minds of the Iraqis, if this keeps happening.

[hibernal_dream]

"We" is a problem.. one power in the world should not dictate what others should do, especially not without support of the vast majority whether that nation thinks it is justified in its actions or not.

And the list you mentioned is certainly no justification for any invasion using any kind of common sense or legal argument I know of, considering no evidence of weapons was found. Israel has breached countless UN resolutions, not including the ones which have been vetoed or kept off the Security Council agenda by the US. On what legal basis in international law were the weapons you describe illegal?

And the term "extremism" is another problem, being a derogatory term not suitable for objective analysis. One could easily argue the American government has been extremist in its actions in the past, thereby justifying an invasion of it in your eyes. It's easy to label something as "extreme" or "terrorist" to justify what you've done but a deeper analysis and look at history indicates the distinctions are nowhere near as clear.

 

[SueNC]

"We" is a problem.. one power in the world should not dictate what others should do, especially not without support of the vast majority whether that nation thinks it is justified in its actions or not.

And the list you mentioned is certainly no justification for any invasion using any kind of common sense or legal argument I know of, considering no evidence of weapons was found. Israel has breached countless UN resolutions, not including the ones which have been vetoed or kept off the Security Council agenda by the US. On what legal basis in international law were the weapons you describe illegal?

And the term "extremism" is another problem, being a derogatory term not suitable for objective analysis. One could easily argue the American government has been extremist in its actions in the past, thereby justifying an invasion of it in your eyes. It's easy to label something as "extreme" or "terrorist" to justify what you've done but a deeper analysis and look at history indicates the distinctions are nowhere near as clear.

you'd have the US give up any power it has and give up its sovereignty to foreign powers with a vested interest in seeing us fall?
i'm sorry, but most Americans do not want that.

there's a reason we're the sole 'super power' in the world today. we've been smarter in our actions home and abroad. if other nations had the same system and could operate on the same level, we wouldnt be the only ones with this kind of pull in the world market.

there are 2 kinds of people: the conquerers and the conquered.
those who say they would rather be members of the conquered are both weak and liars.

as for Israel, they havent proven themselves to be a threat. you dont hear much about Jewish suicide bombers going into mosques or crowded market places, blowing up Muslims.
every attack they've launched has been in retaliation. that they do it so well is what has the Islamic nutjobs and the weak-willed Eurotrash and American lefties shaking their fists over the 'Israeli threat.'

and if you dont think a dictator murdering his own people by the thousands, providing material support to those who would see us destroyed and defying every attempt to bring him in line with the rest of the world is reason enough to have him removed from power, then no amount of murder or terror will change your mind.

 

[fah-q]

"We" is a problem.. one power in the world should not dictate what others should do, especially not without support of the vast majority whether that nation thinks it is justified in its actions or not.
I completely disagree with this. We should not be required to get permission from others to eliminate a murderous dictator. If the UN had voted against military action against Germany, should we have left them alone durning WWII?
And the list you mentioned is certainly no justification for any invasion using any kind of common sense or legal argument I know of, considering no evidence of weapons was found. Israel has breached countless UN resolutions, not including the ones which have been vetoed or kept off the Security Council agenda by the US. On what legal basis in international law were the weapons you describe illegal? Weapons were found, just not in the volume we anticipated. As far as I am concerned, finding one canister of sarin gas justifies our actions. There have also been reports indicating most of the WMD's were shipped to Syria.

And the term "extremism" is another problem, being a derogatory term not suitable for objective analysis. One could easily argue the American government has been extremist in its actions in the past, thereby justifying an invasion of it in your eyes. It's easy to label something as "extreme" or "terrorist" to justify what you've done but a deeper analysis and look at history indicates the distinctions are nowhere near as clear.

There is no question that the war in Iraq has not be managed as well as it could have been. I still believe that Saddam's removal was absolutely necessary.
Yes, it is easy to label someone a terrorist when they strap bombs to themselves and kill groups of innocent people.

 

[Hell_Awaits]

Isn't the new pretext for the invasion to "bring stability and democracy to Iraq" (whether they want it or not, bitch!) ? Your plan would kind of destroy that.

Exactly the new pretext. I wonder why we were'nt sold that bill of goods from the beginning.

The point of my post was how do we know the Iraqis are ready to take care of themselves unless we let them try. Kind of like throwing a kid in the pool to see if he sinks or swims. We can always jump back into the mix if things get out of hand.

 

[Hell_Awaits]

as for Israel, they havent proven themselves to be a threat. you dont hear much about Jewish suicide bombers going into mosques or crowded market places, blowing up Muslims.
every attack they've launched has been in retaliation.

Early zionists actually did engage in many terror tatics such as the bombing of public places and Kidnappings when the British controlled what is now Israel.

 

[SueNC]

Early zionists actually did engage in many terror tatics such as the bombing of public places and Kidnappings when the British controlled what is now Israel.

how early?

 

[Arg_Hamster]

how early?

The 20s and 30s saw a lot of zionist terroracts.

 

[SueNC]

The 20s and 30s saw a lot of zionist terroracts.

really?
like what?

 

[Hell_Awaits]

really?
like what?

Jewish-Zionist Terror.

These two groups of people have been going at each other for a long time.

 

[Arg_Hamster]

The brits cracked down very hard on activists in Palestine back then. A lot of later israeli leaders were once considered Zionist terrorists and I bet a lot of them served time in prison.

 

[SueNC]

Jewish-Zionist Terror.

These two groups of people have been going at each other for a long time.

eh... looks like just another anti-semite propaganda site. :Smug:

 

[Hell_Awaits]

eh... looks like just another anti-semite propaganda site. :Smug:

People should know that in the conflict between the jews and the pals both are guilty of dumbness and both have blood all over their hands.

 

[fah-q]

People should know that in the conflict between the jews and the pals both are guilty of dumbness and both have blood all over their hands.

It all started when they killed Christ.

 

[Hell_Awaits]

It all started when they killed Christ.

I always thought it was ironic that Jesus was a jewish arab that founded
Christianity Cant we all just get along

 

[SueNC]

It all started when they killed Christ.

actually, the Romans killed Christ.
the leaders of the Jewish church prodded the crowds in condeming him of blasphemy.

 

[Jurched]

It all started when they killed Christ.

Yih! yih! An' we'n gotta git them Jooz fer that!

Hey, anyone read Tintin comic books? (Our Evro-Trash like friends like Arg Hamster must have )

Anyway, in Herge's original version of the story from the 1940s, "The Land of Black Gold," he made oil-rich Emirate of Khemed to be a Jewish-Arab protectorate parallel to Palestine.

In one panel, there was a short view of very semitic Zionists planning a bombing, and the terrorist skulked through filthy alleys painted with hebrew grafitti.

Herge was forced to ditch the panels from his reprinted book in the 1950s, because he was already charged with anti-semitism in other Tintin books.

Herge ended up making all terrorists Arabs, and removed all mention of Zionists and hebrew from the story.

But he was illustrating Zionist terrorism in Palestine before Israel was created.

Jurched

 

[eternal alchemist]

I don't fear death myself, however I still think sacrifice is sick on a whole. Life should be of self-importance, egotism, not too much of it, although you should always be considered the most important thing to care about. These young brainwashed children do not see hope thus they believe that in getting 'revenge' for their 'God' they will attain the place in heaven. Please correct me if I'm wrong, however brainwashing has 'indoctrinated' these young children into the ways of fundementalist extremist islamic terrorism, by telling them a higher being will reward them by sacrificing those that are of a christian religion. Mainly christian, as it controls the majority of the world- whether it's world domination or overall stereotypical hatred, it's still considered a racist attack, this is a racist war; a genocide. I may find this humorous how these foolish people are out killing their own race on the note of a biblical form, but I tend to keep an open mind about things. My opinion remains disgusted and stereotypically mankind has 'fallen' for this act of terrorism. You cannot simply convince terrorists to back down. Open war is upon us whether you like it or not. If those of you who have a wide insight to things such as this, you may have realised that this particular onslaught may result in the third world war. All those who are fighting in this conflict have nuclear warheads and soon will be willing to use them. Where there's a will, there's a way. Comments?

 

[IAN442]

i do my best to follow along with all of this

but god damn at evern turn there is yet another twist.

in my world...we would have left saddam alone and stuck with our monitoring the situation and keeping him in place.

kept the air force busy - (people like myself) but he was kept fairly honest and no way he was ever going to get back what he had.

can someone explain why we didn't go farther in afghanistan after funding Binnie boy and company to root out the Soviets ?

i know this whole Muslim - Western Euro battle mess goes farther than that but it seems like more than once we went the wrong way and made some bad choices in our strategic planning.

what can we do as americans ?