THEOCRACY-Mirror Of Souls

[General Zod]

Does singing about "Satanism" make you more creative than singing about Christ? Please enlighten me...

You're wrong. Black Metal is a style of music.

Brian...

While Black Metal is a style of music, with certain musical characteristics, it is deeply associated with its lyrics and ethos. Whether you look at the "First Wave of Black Metal" or the "Second Wave", all those bands were very anti-Christian or pro-Heathen/Pagan. Trying to separate Black Metal from this aspect is like trying to separate Glam Metal from the image of the bands. Could you play Glam Metal in comfortable jeans, loose fitting t-shirts, short hair and no make-up? I suppose. But would it really be Glam?

Zod

 

[General Zod]

Satanism and christianity are two sides of the same coin.

QFT.

Zod

 

[edgeofthorns]

Brian...

While Black Metal is a style of music, with certain musical characteristics, it is deeply associated with its lyrics and ethos. Whether you look at the "First Wave of Black Metal" or the "Second Wave", all those bands were very anti-Christian or pro-Heathen/Pagan.

I do agree to an extent. With that said, I still feel like a band can be considered Black Metal and not be required to sing about anti-Christian themes.

Trying to separate Black Metal from this aspect is like trying to separate Glam Metal from the image of the bands. Could you play Glam Metal in comfortable jeans, loose fitting t-shirts, short hair and no make-up? I suppose. But would it really be Glam?

I think this statement from you contradicts your first. This makes it sound like you agree that Black Metal is simply a style and not so much about the lyrics.

Zod

~Brian~

 

[edgeofthorns]

Satanism and christianity are two sides of the same coin. That statement was about religion, not christianity specifically. For that matter, have you ever heard of a muslim artist or a muslim band?

This still doesn't explain why you think religion blocks people from being creative.

~Brian~

 

[Hal9000]

This still doesn't explain why you think religion blocks people from being creative.

~Brian~

Not blocks, hinders. If you're not a musician first and a christian second, the mindset seems to be "How can I write a soundtrack to my beliefs?"

 

[General Zod]

I do agree to an extent. With that said, I still feel like a band can be considered Black Metal and not be required to sing about anti-Christian themes.

I didn't say you couldn't. My original comment was, the idea of a Christian Black Metal band is absurd.

I think this statement from you contradicts your first. This makes it sound like you agree that Black Metal is simply a style and not so much about the lyrics.

Perhaps I expressed myself poorly. The point I was striving for is, there are sometimes non-musical elements of a genre that can't be removed. Much like image and fashion are inextricably linked to Glam Metal, misanthropic, nihilistic and/or anti-Christian lyrics are strongly associated with Black Metal. Conveying a pro-Christian message within the genre of Black Metal runs contrary to the entire ethos of that genre. Hence my comment, that doing so is absurd.

Zod

 

[edgeofthorns]

I didn't say you couldn't. My original comment was, the idea of a Christian Black Metal band is absurd.

Perhaps I expressed myself poorly. The point I was striving for is, there are sometimes non-musical elements of a genre that can't be removed. Much like image and fashion are inextricably linked to Glam Metal, misanthropic, nihilistic and/or anti-Christian lyrics are strongly associated with Black Metal. Conveying a pro-Christian message within the genre of Black Metal runs contrary to the entire ethos of that genre. Hence my comment, that doing so is absurd.

Zod

Well, I guess the bottom line is, that you and I agree upon the idea of "Christian Black Metal" is odd/absurd, but it can be done.

~Brian~

 

[edgeofthorns]

Not blocks, hinders. If you're not a musician first and a christian second, the mindset seems to be "How can I write a soundtrack to my beliefs?"

...but isn't that what most musicians/artists do, express themselves through their music? Most of the time a belief system of some sort is a large part of a person's life, so naturally that comes through their art.

~Brian~

 

[General Zod]

Well, I guess the bottom line is, that you and I agree upon the idea of "Christian Black Metal" is odd/absurd, but it can be done.

Perfect.

Zod

 

[Hal9000]

...but isn't that what most musicians/artists do, express themselves through their music? Most of the time a belief system of some sort is a large part of a person's life, so naturally that comes through their art.

~Brian~

Soul searching self expression requires more than a musical book report.

 

[edgeofthorns]

Soul searching self expression requires more than a musical book report.

Hal, you post answers in cliches. You still haven't managed to give me a straight forward answer. I think you simply just want to agree with Zod without explaining your point.

Merry Christmas by the way...

~Brian~

 

[Hal9000]

The bible has been quoted time and time again, through various gospel genres. There nothing original or creative about repeating the same worn out verses time and time again. Nobody cares who you've accepted as your personal savior. You only feel it's a wonderful expression of creativity because you're a christian. If a muslim was singing about how wonderful allah was, you wouldn't care. When people sing about their religion (including satanism), only people of that same religion are inspired by it. The rest of us could care less.

 

[edgeofthorns]

The bible has been quoted time and time again, through various gospel genres. There nothing original or creative about repeating the same worn out verses time and time again. Nobody cares who you've accepted as your personal savior. You only feel it's a wonderful expression of creativity because you're a christian. If a muslim was singing about how wonderful allah was, you wouldn't care. When people sing about their religion (including satanism), only people of that same religion are inspired by it. The rest of us could care less.

Granted, they're Christian song writers out there that write the same ol' song over and over and over again. I'll be the first one to admit that for sure. Contempory Christian radio makes me want to bang my head against the wall! With that said, I'm not even thinking of those people when I consider Christian music. I feel like writers such as Matt, Rob Rock and Neal Morse have much more substance to their writing "Christian" themes than the folks on modern Christian radio. In conclusion, I feel like you can be creative, while maintaining a Christian faith. I personally don't feel that religion hinders creativity unless the individual allows it to be hindered. In other words, I don't think religion in general is to blame.

~Brian~

 

[Hal9000]

Granted, they're Christian song writers out there that write the same ol' song over and over and over again. I'll be the first one to admit that for sure. Contempory Christian radio makes me want to bang my head against the wall! With that said, I'm not even thinking of those people when I consider Christian music. I feel like writers such as Matt, Rob Rock and Neal Morse have much more substance to their writing "Christian" themes than the folks on modern Christian radio. In conclusion, I feel like you can be creative, while maintaining a Christian faith. I personally don't feel that religion hinders creativity unless the individual allows it to be hindered. In other words, I don't think religion in general is to blame.

~Brian~

I agree about Matt, I'm on the fence about Rob Rock, but Neal Morse I disagree with you there. IMO he hit his creative peak with Spock's Beard and has faltered ever since. On Sola Scriptura, Neal Morse claims in his brief liner essay that he had no knowledge of Martin Luther's rabid anti-Semitism when he wrote the album. Which begs the question, what did he know about Martin Luther when he wrote the album? Why would you write a rock opera/concept album about a person you know that little about? It seems like he was more concerned with spreading his own beliefs than he was with making a good album. Kerry Livgren and Mark Farner suffered the same fates. When they found their religion, they forgot their passion for music.

 

[edgeofthorns]

I agree about Matt, I'm on the fence about Rob Rock, but Neal Morse I disagree with you there. IMO he hit his creative peak with Spock's Beard and has faltered ever since. On Sola Scriptura, Neal Morse claims in his brief liner essay that he had no knowledge of Martin Luther's rabid anti-Semitism when he wrote the album. Which begs the question, what did he know about Martin Luther when he wrote the album? Why would you write a rock opera/concept album about a person you know that little about? It seems like he was more concerned with spreading his own beliefs than he was with making a good album. Kerry Livgren and Mark Farner suffered the same fates. When they found their religion, they forgot their passion for music.

I have no doubt that some people just flat out loose it, but it doesn't mean everyone suffers. With that said, Eric Clayton (Saviour Machine) is another good example of a solid song writer and is quite creative with his musical approach.

~Brian~

 

[General Zod]

On Sola Scriptura, Neal Morse claims in his brief liner essay that he had no knowledge of Martin Luther's rabid anti-Semitism when he wrote the album. Which begs the question, what did he know about Martin Luther when he wrote the album? Why would you write a rock opera/concept album about a person you know that little about? It seems like he was more concerned with spreading his own beliefs than he was with making a good album.

Wow... that would be funny... if it wasn't kind of sad.

The jackasses from Rage Against the Machine did something similar. They held a concert in Philly for convicted cop-killer Mumia Abu-Jamal. Now, you would think if you're going to throw a benefit concert for a convicted killer, you'd might want to familiarize yourself with the facts of the case. However, while promoting the concert on the Howard Stern show, the murdered cop's partner called in and got into it with the guys from RAtM. As the deceased cop's partner explained the facts of the case to Howard, the geniuses from RAtM had no rebuttal. Turns out, they knew none of the details/facts surrounding the case. Morons.

Zod

 

[edgeofthorns]

Wow... that would be funny... if it wasn't kind of sad.

The jackasses from Rage Against the Machine did something similar. They held a concert in Philly for convicted cop-killer Mumia Abu-Jamal. Now, you would think if you're going to throw a benefit concert for a convicted killer, you'd might want to familiarize yourself with the facts of the case. However, while promoting the concert on the Howard Stern show, the murdered cop's partner called in and got into it with the guys from RAtM. As the deceased cop's partner explained the facts of the case to Howard, the geniuses from RAtM had no rebuttal. Turns out, they knew none of the details/facts surrounding the case. Morons.

Zod

I can proudly say that I didn't spend one red cent on a RATM disc back in the day. I couldn't stand the fact that they thought communism was a good thing. With that said, jackasses is the nice way to put it.

One of the reasons why I've never been able to get into Audioslave is due to the ex-RATM members as well.

~Brian~

 

[FatesFan]

I have no doubt that some people just flat out loose it, but it doesn't mean everyone suffers. With that said, Eric Clayton (Saviour Machine) is another good example of a solid song writer and is quite creative with his musical approach.

~Brian~

Dude, you are debating the quality and validity of Christian metal with someone whos tag to his screen name is "dark lord".

 

[edgeofthorns]

Dude, you are debating the quality and validity of Christian metal with someone whos tag to his screen name is "dark lord".

Dark Lord = Teddy Bear

~Brian~

 

[halcyonwayband@aol.com]

Dark Lord = Teddy Bear

~Brian~

Sean is just cranky because he has such bad hemorrhoids. hehehe