There are no gimmicks and there are no sellouts. Just stop.

[NAD]

Seriously. If you expect every band to write songs that deal with their own life experiences or expectations or standards or what have you, go listen to fucking Jewel or some other gay "I lived in my car for 3 months and now I'm gonna bitch about it" shit.

Besides, who fucking cares about lyrics when you can't understand most of these bands anyhow?

Also, the sellout thing. I don't buy it, never have and never will. THIS STUFF IS NOT POPULAR. The most popular band in the extreme metal underground is Cannibal Corpse, and it took them 12 years to sell their millionth album. They aren't livin' large or blingin' or cappin' fools or whatever else rich music stars do.

Picture this, do you think this happens at Watchmaker (since they came up) rehearsals?

singer: "Hey guys, I think if we write a song with a memorable chorus about killing hookers we'll sell 9,082 albums this year! Then we can afford heating this winter!!!"
band: "YEAH! LET'S SELL OUT!!!"

Rant over. :Spin:

 

[Under a Stone]

Metallica comes to mind :Smug:

 

[NAD]

Bullshit. How did they sell out? They were already making money before the black album. Just because they suck now doesn't mean they sold out.

 

[J.]

I most definitely believe bands use gimmicks. Arch Enemy comes to mind.

As far as sell outs, "selling out" does not always equal "getting rich". In Flames comes to mind.

 

[J.]

If Burton were still in Metallica, they wouldn't be a disgrace.

 

[NAD]

That's because Burton would have kicked all their pansy asses long ago.

 

[Ayeka]

You can point out a gimmick where that is one but I don't think they're necessarily a bad thing. Iron Maiden's Eddie is cool, Kiss's makeup is cool, just take 'em as a good laff and there's no harm in being suckered in by 'em!

 

[lurch70]

I think most bands get started for one of several reasons:

1. want to be popular
2. want chicks
3. have some anger issues
4. mommy/daddy/schol mates did not like me
5. need to make some political statement
6. free booze

I don't believe in the term "sell out" either ... it is easy to criticize from the outside, but it is human nature to want to better yourself and make more money/ be better/ get to higher levels.

I really do not believe that Metallica has sold out, they just become uninspired and lazy and old.

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

2. want chicks

This would really be the only reason for me.

I really do not believe that Metallica has sold out, they just become uninspired and lazy and old.

I also agree wholeheartedly with this statement.

 

[J.]

Agree with Erik. Hell, we've got some people in bands that visit this forum. Erik, Sorath, unhinged, Lehto, etc...

Why did you all start bands?

 

[Ayeka]

1. want to be popular
2. want chicks
6. free booze

For the record, that's my quota from that list

 

[Hell Mike]

I play in my two bands because I like thrash metalterror and whatever you wish to call Nasheim. Playing in a band which makes crap music or even music you don't think is fucking great has no point, if you ask me. At least no good point.

People who start bands to get chicks and stuff will probably never make TRULY AWESOME music. There are probably a few exceptions which you don't have to point out.

 

[General Zod]

If you don't recognize that Metallica totally, utterly and irreversibly sold out after AJFA then this discussion is over before it even began.

While I wholeheartedly agree with this statement, I also think NAD has a valid point. I think too often we hammer bands for "selling out", when all that's really happening is:

- they're not as pissed off as they once were
- they're not as inspired as they once were
- the well has run dry
- they're musical interests have shifted

I think the only bands that actually sell out, are those bands that are so close to mainstream success, that they recognize that if just they make certain artistic concessions, they can increase their record sales exponentially. The two most glaring examples of this are Metallica's "Black Album" and Queensryche's "Empire". No one will ever convince me that these two CDs weren't written with the express purpose of drawing in an entirely new fanbase, at the sake of the band's musical integrity.

Zod

 

[unhinged]

I think most bands get started for one of several reasons:

1. want to be popular
2. want chicks
3. have some anger issues
4. mommy/daddy/schol mates did not like me
5. need to make some political statement
6. free booze

none of those reasons anyway
I started playing drums because I heard the motorhead song overkill
when I was 11, didn't start actually playing till 15-16 but that was it
I wanted to make 'that' noise
pretty simple really

 

[unhinged]

Playing in a band which makes crap music or even music you don't think is fucking great has no point, if you ask me. At least no good point.

actually sorath has pretty much summed up my whole musical philosophy there

 

[lurch70]

of course the love of music is first ... this does not need to be said.
if you suck at your instrument and do not care for music, you will not make it anyway. it is just like any other job ... if your heart is not into it ... you will suck at what you do. at least this is my opinion.

I was talking about the deeper reasons

 

[lurch70]

Queensryche's "Empire". No one will ever convince me that these two CDs weren't written with the express purpose of drawing in an entirely new fanbase, at the sake of the band's musical integrity.

this is the first time i heard anyone of accusing Queensryche of selling out ... I think Empire was a phenomenal record. They definetelly peaked there. It was a gradual climb to that ... and it was downhill from there.

This reminds me to start another thread ... the "jump the shark" thread

 

[jimbobhickville]

Queensryche didn't sell out, they were always glam. *ducks*

 

[Demonspell]

There are different levels of gimmick and sellout, I think it's possible to compromise your art in a less obvious fashion and/or fail to penetrate the mainstream while doing so. And gimmicks exist in nearly all types of music, I define it at the point where outward image becomes the central point of one's means of expression. I'm not disputing the fact that people start bands in pursuit of money, there's more to selling out than the natural urge to succeed financially...when you write music with that goal as the primary aim, then the line has been crossed.

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

this is the first time i heard anyone of accusing Queensryche of selling out ... I think Empire was a phenomenal record. They definetelly peaked there. It was a gradual climb to that ... and it was downhill from there.

Absolutely. Not only was Empire brilliant, but Queensryche was ALREADY EXPERIENCING TREMENDOUS SUCCESS due to Mindcrime before it. So how is it even possible that Empire was "selling out?" Answer: it wasn't.