this article angers me
- Thread starter mad_taffer
- Start date
Last tour they only played songs from "Seventh Son" and before, you would of loved it. This current tour is more for the recent stuff since the new album comes out in August.
Next year they will do a tour with stuff from the new album plus a mixture of their back catalog (unless they decide to play the whole new album again).
J. Golden
Heaven and Hell Records
I love 80s metal, well that is no secret. However I do feel a lot of the big 80s bands like Maiden just no longer put out the same quality. I saw this coming when I heard 'Tail-gunner" and thought I have heard this already I believe it was called 'Aces High". Since then it seems to have continued and even gotten worse.
I hate to admit that I am the guy at the Boston concern only wanting to hear the "taking care of business" part of the song. (Simpsons fans well get the joke) But I'm now that guy simply because new material doesn't stack up.
I don't think modern metal bands compare to whjat the 80s offered. However I do think bands of the past two decades offer up better stuff than what the old guard do now.
I hate to admit that I am the guy at the Boston concern only wanting to hear the "taking care of business" part of the song. (Simpsons fans well get the joke) But I'm now that guy simply because new material doesn't stack up.
I don't think modern metal bands compare to whjat the 80s offered. However I do think bands of the past two decades offer up better stuff than what the old guard do now.
I was at the Dallas and San Antonio shows and the Houston show on the last tour in May of 08. I give them credit for doing something different this time around. To my taste the post reunion tour songs they are playing are great, sometimes stunningly good. No, El Darado is not a great song but let's wait for the rest of the album, which has a lot of music, before we pass judgement on the viability of their new music.
My guess. They will do a second US leg and play lots of music from the new record. And lots of the more familiar music many complained they are not playing on this current tour.
Maiden has a lot of great music and they are mixing it up it in refreshing way in my opinion.
My guess. They will do a second US leg and play lots of music from the new record. And lots of the more familiar music many complained they are not playing on this current tour.
Maiden has a lot of great music and they are mixing it up it in refreshing way in my opinion.
nomisofsiman
Member
Firstly, Mad_Taffer, I would have to say as some others have said, you are way overreacting. One guy stating his opinion in a column/blog cannot no matter what he says exemplify what is wrong with metal today. He is entitled to his opinion.
I must say though, I have to agree with most of what he said. I honestly REALLY DON'T LIKE the new song. As I've stated in other posts, I think it meanders too much and is sort of all over the place, and it does sort of seem like it took 45 minutes to write the song to be perfectly honest. However, that's all the guy really said. Maybe he thinks Maiden shouldn't put out new albums and he's entitled to that opinion. I understand people with that opinion, as I'm not the biggest fan of their 21st century output, outside of the last album. That's just me though.
To be perfectly honest (and I'm fully prepared for a lashing for saying this) I have always thought most of Maiden's albums were inconsistent, which is probably why they aren't even on my top 5 or even 10 bands. Sure, they've written several of the best metal songs ever recorded, but I find with the exception of "Number of the Beast" and "Powerslave" that most of their material has a decent amount of filler. Not that they have many awful songs, but usually there have been a couple songs or so on their albums that I just don't get into. Just my opinion.
I would disagree with the guy in hinting that Maiden shouldn't be putting out new albums, despite me not liking the new song. As others have said, their singles tend to be the worst songs on the albums in recent years. I also think while the newer material is far from their best it is still great music, just not as great by Maiden's standards.
I must say though, I have to agree with most of what he said. I honestly REALLY DON'T LIKE the new song. As I've stated in other posts, I think it meanders too much and is sort of all over the place, and it does sort of seem like it took 45 minutes to write the song to be perfectly honest. However, that's all the guy really said. Maybe he thinks Maiden shouldn't put out new albums and he's entitled to that opinion. I understand people with that opinion, as I'm not the biggest fan of their 21st century output, outside of the last album. That's just me though.
To be perfectly honest (and I'm fully prepared for a lashing for saying this) I have always thought most of Maiden's albums were inconsistent, which is probably why they aren't even on my top 5 or even 10 bands. Sure, they've written several of the best metal songs ever recorded, but I find with the exception of "Number of the Beast" and "Powerslave" that most of their material has a decent amount of filler. Not that they have many awful songs, but usually there have been a couple songs or so on their albums that I just don't get into. Just my opinion.
I would disagree with the guy in hinting that Maiden shouldn't be putting out new albums, despite me not liking the new song. As others have said, their singles tend to be the worst songs on the albums in recent years. I also think while the newer material is far from their best it is still great music, just not as great by Maiden's standards.
dcowboys311
Member
As someone who's never seen Maiden -- due mainly to their inability to play entire regions of the country for a good decade and a half -- I'd be PISSED if I went to a show and didn't hear the classics.
You guys who complain about bad Maiden setlists, don't worry. They'll be hitting up the exact same cities every time they come to this country...you'll have plenty of chances.
You guys who complain about bad Maiden setlists, don't worry. They'll be hitting up the exact same cities every time they come to this country...you'll have plenty of chances.
skyrefuge
Member
I think there's a good possibility that you're suffering from some selection bias. Since you're old (sorry!) and American, the group that you're polling is likely to also be old and American. And among that group, yeah, your perception is probably accurate. But what about the younger crowd? Or the crowd in countries where Maiden's popularity is relatively new? They could have a much different opinion. Maybe Maiden's new stuff is just as objectively good as their old stuff, with nostalgia and attachment being the only thing that keeps them separate in the minds of older fans. In fact, that opinion was expressed by younger people at least twice in this very thread.
Except that before they released the second half of their discography, they *did* draw fewer people. I know I say this all the time, but in 1996 they were playing 1400-capacity venues in the US. 1400! Their trajectory was *not* upwards (or even constant), and at that time I don't think many people would have been betting that they'd ever get back to arena status. But they did. Surely there are other factors involved, like the return of their classic-era singer, and the general revival of metal, but I think it would be hard to argue that putting out well-liked new albums was not also a contributing factor.
And to get those numbers back up, they also needed to tap into the next generation. As we see from Glenn's comments on ProgPower, old people stop going to shows. Artists can't stay at the same level based on their old fans alone. So Iron Maiden has captured the younger crowd, and that crowd is more likely to be unaware that they aren't supposed to like the new stuff.
Six:
6: Fear of the Dark
11: The Wicker Man
14: Be Quick or Be Dead
16: Brave New World
21: Blood Brothers
24: Rainmaker
Ten more:
27: Ghost of the Navigator
28: Dance of Death
33: Wasting Love
36: Afraid to Shoot Strangers
37: Dream of Mirrors
42: The Mercenary
43: No More Lies
47: Man on the Edge
48: Holy Smoke
49: Different World
A lot better than you assumed, at least! Data is from the most-listened to tracks over the last 6 months by last.fm listeners: http://www.last.fm/music/Iron+Maiden/+charts?rangetype=6month&subtype=tracks
I'm always amazed by the song "Fear of the Dark". It, along with the also-popular "Afraid to Shoot Strangers", were the prototype songs of the "new Iron Maiden style". 7+ minutes long, quiet intro, slow buildup, repeat title 700 times, quiet outro. Their next two albums were built almost entirely by replicating those songs, and every album since then can be strongly connected to the style shown in those prototypes.
You would be very hard-pressed to find any objective way to show that "Fear of the Dark" is a "better" song than any of the dozens of similar songs from the new era. Yet, it's one of their most popular songs, and has become an unquestioned concert mainstay, getting a spot of honor right next to "Hallowed Be Thy Name" and "Iron Maiden".
Why? I say, because they *made* people like it. By playing it. Contrary to popular belief, people don't decide to like or dislike songs in a vacuum. Environment and other cues play a huge rule. "Oh, other people like this song? Maybe I'll pay more attention to it then!" "Oh, the band likes this song? It must be good then!" Often, just simple repetition is required to get people on-board (see top-40 radio for proof that this works). And any song Maiden plays at a concert is automatically going to seem a lot better to you, because you'll then associate it with a great time in your life, namely, your attendance at an Iron Maiden concert. So the next time you hear it at a concert, it'll seem more like an old favorite.
So that's why I think they continue to put a strong focus on playing new songs at their concerts. Not because they're self-indulgent assholes who don't give a crap about what their fans want, but because they actually see a bit farther into the future than their fans. They know that eventually the gravy train would run out if they stuck purely to their old classics. As great as they are, people will eventually get bored, or old, and stop coming. So they make a conscious effort to continually create *new* classics. A "classic" isn't just born fully-formed, it actually takes work to get it to that state among the fans, and that's why they play these new songs.
I think it's a brilliant strategy. And with a catalog as large as theirs, I can't imagine anyone balancing the line between backward-looking and forward-looking as successfully as Iron Maiden has done over the last decade.
Neil
AngraRULES
Member
Agreed 100%. In fact, I consider some of these to be among the best Maiden songs ever.
Well, what I wrote was not sent so it really doesn't matter now at this point. All I know is that I think that Maiden is one of the few bands from the 80's that have not lost their sound or the ability to make great tunes IMO. As I have stated, hearing The Wicker Man made me a fan in 2000, and then opened me up to their older catalogue, but I think that Ghost of Navigator or Paschedale or Dance of the Dead are modern Maiden classics. My thoughts about what that reviewer said is that it was almost impossible for a band that came from that era to conceive classics anymore, so they should just give up. To me that's just a bad attitude to have towards anything. He says that El Dorado is lazy writing...and just sitting on your classics and not making new music is not lazy? It's a contradiction. Also, I remember seeing all the Maiden discs which were filmed in RIO and the Dance of Death tour and just how appreciative the audiences are for them there. I wanted that to happen in Dallas, but then I forgot about the American mindset towards metal in general and for the most part you saw a lot of people standing there waiting to be spoonfed their classic songs from their youth. At that point I was embarrased to be there and wished I was somewhere else where new Maiden material is appreciated and they sing along to the new songs like the old. No wonder Maiden don't like touring the states as much, I don't blame them. I think seeing what I saw at that show and then reading that article just really irriatated me. Why is metal stuck in the 80's in the US? I still blame Beavis and Butthead for this mentality. Why can people overseas embrace these new songs with such zeal and US audiences turn their backs? I just don't understand it.
I really don't grasp the attitude of only liking the "old stuff" and then going to a new concert and complaining.
If I don't like something a band has made in the past 5 (let alone 20) years i simply will not go to the concert.
If you are are no longer supporting the bands music or buying their products, who are you to dictate their set-list?
Bands should cater to the fans that are continuing to support them and that means playing new stuff. Maiden actually goes out of their way to do one tour of only old stuff and then one of new stuff for the past decade. This article neglects this fact and the supports of the "old stuff" seem to forget that without the continued support of the new fans most bands eventually fad away.
If I don't like something a band has made in the past 5 (let alone 20) years i simply will not go to the concert.
If you are are no longer supporting the bands music or buying their products, who are you to dictate their set-list?
Bands should cater to the fans that are continuing to support them and that means playing new stuff. Maiden actually goes out of their way to do one tour of only old stuff and then one of new stuff for the past decade. This article neglects this fact and the supports of the "old stuff" seem to forget that without the continued support of the new fans most bands eventually fad away.
Skyrefuge,
That was a brilliant post, I agree with everything you said and it makes perfect sense with you backing up your facts. Did you take English in college? He he!
mtaffer
That was a brilliant post, I agree with everything you said and it makes perfect sense with you backing up your facts. Did you take English in college? He he!
mtaffer
nomisofsiman
Member
Also I think with Maiden they just don't want to just play the classics. I know at least I've read interviews with Bruce where when he came back, the intention was not to just be a nostalgia act. Yeah, they did that classic tour two years ago, but really, they've put out material in this decade and play it on tours. I think if it were to get to a point where fans didn't buy their discs, their tours were doing awful, they'd give it up before turning into a nostalgia act. You gotta give them credit for having those standards -- even if you may not like the newer stuff.
Def Leppard don't want to be a classics band either, but they are trying too hard to fit into mainstream, whereas Iron Maiden have stuck to what they do best...which to me should also be commended. Well, I guess they have gone more progressive, and they did add orchestra and stuff, but I think it compliments their sound quite nicely. To me something like "Dance of the Dead" is like a mini movie put to music, so what accompanies movies more than orchestra? I also always felt that the tempo of the song would echo the sentiment of the lyrics, and as such I have always put Maiden (especially their new stuff) into more of an epic song type of thing. Like in Dream of Mirrors the way the song speeds up as it goes, to me reminds me of someone losing their sanity and the faster the song is the faster they are going insane. I love stuff like that. Another thing about Maiden that they have not forgotten how to make amazingly catchy melodic choruses even in their weaker tunes (Different World has the "Don't want to be here, somewhere I'd rather be section")...which I am weak for obviously.
I actually thought this myself when I was at the Dallas show. If they just mixed the new and old together it would probably have gone over better and people would have been more receptive to the new tunes.
mtaffer
mtaffer
nomisofsiman
Member
Def Leppard don't want to be a classics band either, but they are trying too hard to fit into mainstream, whereas Iron Maiden have stuck to what they do best...which to me should also be commended. Well, I guess they have gone more progressive, and they did add orchestra and stuff, but I think it compliments their sound quite nicely. To me something like "Dance of the Dead" is like a mini movie put to music, so what accompanies movies more than orchestra? I also always felt that the tempo of the song would echo the sentiment of the lyrics, and as such I have always put Maiden (especially their new stuff) into more of an epic song type of thing. Like in Dream of Mirrors the way the song speeds up as it goes, to me reminds me of someone losing their sanity and the faster the song is the faster they are going insane. I love stuff like that. Another thing about Maiden that they have not forgotten how to make amazingly catchy melodic choruses even in their weaker tunes (Different World has the "Don't want to be here, somewhere I'd rather be section")...which I am weak for obviously.
Agreed. That is why I have respect for Maiden. They aren't selling out and trying to fit in. They do what they want to do. I hate it when bands try to fit in.
Kimavir
Metal Hippy
- Nov 13, 2003
- 412
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I love what Iron Maiden is doing on their tours these days. I heard 4... 4! songs from Brave New World in San Antonio last week. When I saw them 7 years ago, I heard 1 song from that album. While I would have liked to hear more of the classics, I also relished the opportunity to hear songs they just don't play live. Instead of being predictable and the same at every freaking concert; they decided to take advantage of their massive catalog and provide a different show every time. Last tour, they played exclusively older stuff; some songs hadn't been played in 20 years. I love that, and I think it's the reason why seeing some bands once was enough for me... where as I'll go see Maiden every chance I get.
TribunalRecords
Record Label(s)/Vocalist
AMEN. Maiden come to North or South Carolina? hell no, why would they want to do that? and i am not driving 5 hours to see them.
nomisofsiman
Member
I agree. Since I saw the Somewhere in Time tour (which was my first and only time I saw them) I'm stoked that they'll be playing a lot of the newer stuff. It'll mean it'll almost be a completely different set. My only complaint with the newer sets I've seen is the lack of Powerslave (which is my favorite Maiden album) but like I said I heard it all last time. However, on that same token...if this were to be my first Maiden concert I would be pissed as holy hell. So, having said that I think they need to try to balance it a bit more next time out, realizing that a lot of times there are going to be new fans at their shows, but also not playing the same ol' for the crowd that has seen them time and time again.
Well, this year is the first year I get to see Maiden and I'm not disappointed at all. I've heard the old songs many times in many forms and I'm just happy to see them live for once.
Kimavir
Metal Hippy
- Nov 13, 2003
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Fair enough, I can I see how my opinion would be different if it had been my first time to see them (and if I didn't really, really love Brave New World). Maybe they should just advertise the type of setlist better to avoid disappointing folks; though I don't know how they would.
Back to the new single... I'm not in love with the song, but I won't jump on the wagon and ask them to stop making albums because of one song. Right now, we're talking about how the second half of IM's catalog is bad because it's not up the par set by their best. If Maiden had broken up and then Steve or Bruce had formed a second band that put out the exact same albums, we'd be talking about how they're great, but we sure wish Iron Maiden had stuck around. And if Maiden had stopped recording and a new, younger band had put out exact duplicates of their last 7 albums... we'd be talking about how they're carrying the torch and we'd just die for them to play ProgPower next year. That's how I feel anyway.
