This makes me sick, and I think brutal death metal artwork is funny

[waif]

I think these people should be held accountable to US law. I just think we have to understand that other people have different ideas of right or wrong. That doesn't mean we have to go by their ideas. Just that these men may not have felt they were doing something that was wrong.

Also, could you not be all condescending?

 

[WINTER TYRANT]

Four hundred and sixteen children. which are people under the age of 18 thats not including everyone over the age. i have to do a presentation on this sick shit on tuesday for extra credit in my criminal justice class.

 

[rms]

By the morals of the people who wrote said law. If the law had been written by these guys, it would be fine.

I agree with the law, I just think it's important to remember that someone with a different upbringing may have different concepts of right and wrong, and that this doesn't necessarily mean they're a bad person.

what a stupid arguement. state/national defined morals aka laws supercede some hick ass church.

 

[waif]

That's what I'm saying. These people should be held responsible.

I'm just saying that the law is written according to the morals of the people who write it. There is no universal right or wrong. Different people have differing ideas of right or wrong.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I think these people should be held accountable to US law. I just think we have to understand that other people have different ideas of right or wrong. That doesn't mean we have to go by their ideas. Just that these men may not have felt they were doing something that was wrong.

Also, could you not be all condescending?

What they are doing is wrong in relation to how the law of the US works, so they are in the wrong no matter what. They also did this all voluntarily and being indoctrinated is not a psychological or scientifically-documented condition, so therapy is going to be wasted if that is an option put forth. I just think they should do a fuckload of jail time, get these people out of places where decent, rational human beings exist.

You're in the wrong if, with respect to society and how societies function better when order, safety and freedom are balanced, you cause trauma, fostering psychological disorders, perpetrating acts of cruelty on knowing and unknowing victims...none of those things can ever be good for the society in which they are done unless you want the society to disintegrate into failure.

I'm sorry for being/seeming(?) condescending, but we already all know that there's no UNIVERSAL TRUTH OF RIGHT AND WRONG, but there is a nice universal system of deciding that things gone unpunished and unregulated will cause horrible, dissolving and epic-failing problems for any society.

 

[Mort Divine]

Considering banging young girls is against the law, it's wrong

That is terrible logic. The law does not determine what is right and what is wrong! The individual does.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

That is pretty horrible logic also tbh. In general, societies like to be working and running smoothly. People killing people is bad in respect to society because it causes chaos and paranoia, among other things (worse things I would posit). That is why killing is bad. If you think killing is good, you are a moron.

Also we're in a society.

 

[waif]

Right. They should be tried and if found guilty, punished appropriately. No argument there.
As far as indoctrination, just look the Christian Coalition, or Focus On The Family, or any of those religiously-motivated organizations down south telling people what to think. You look at a an anti-gay rally, or an anti-abortion rally, or whatever. Do you think those people would come to hold those beliefs if they hadn't been indoctrinated with them all their lives? About 15 years ago not far from my house a guy walked into an abortion clinic with a sub-machine gun and killed a bunch of people. Do you think he did that because he'd read the newspapers and come to the conclusion that abortion was wrong?

Absolute wrong is, with respect to this, causing trauma, fostering psychological disorders, perpetrating acts of cruelty on knowing and unknowing victims...none of those things can ever be good for the society in which they are done unless you want the society to disintegrate into failure.

I totally agree with this, of course.

 

[rms]

That is terrible logic. The law does not determine what is right and what is wrong! The individual does.

sarcasm post?

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

What's your point?

 

[Mort Divine]

sarcasm post?

No. The law DOES NOT determine right and wrong. It determines legal and illegal but it can NEVER determine morality.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

No one is saying it does, except rms who doesn't understand how right and wrong relates to society anyway.

Generally we want to better our society; having people doing things that goes against this in any way, shape or form is bad, and is wrong in the context of how societies progress.

 

[waif]

No. The law DOES NOT determine right and wrong. It determines legal and illegal but it can NEVER determine morality.

...because morality is relative.

However, law is the consensus of a society regarding morality.

 

[Ender Rises]

The law is the ATTEMPT to have a consensus among society regarding morality. It isn't perfect by far.

 

[waif]

Well yeah. It's not like every single person approved it. But most of it is decent. For example, the part that says no raping little girls. I think most of us agree with that.

 

[Ender Rises]

Well I would hope so. But there is quite a bit of the law that isn't based in quite a lot of people's morality.

 

[waif]

Namely?
Not questioning, just curious.

 

[The Ozzman]

Like women being allowed the right to vote, for example

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

The law is the ATTEMPT to have a consensus among society regarding morality. It isn't perfect by far.

Like I've been saying, it is not even trying to include and bargain between every morality. There is no such thing as a "universal" morality because we have no need for it, nor can we even perceive it. Laws are just there so that society does not disintegrate. Generally society is good because you live in it. That's really how simple it is.

 

[Ender Rises]

I agree. The law is not the definitive consensus of morality, that would be impossible to do. And besides, personal morality is often stronger than the law. It isn't against the law to cheat on a girlfriend, but most people have a moral problem with it.