Thomas Miller = Symphony X

[Cogluotobusisletmesi]

So, I have been thinking very hard about Symphony X's decline these past two albums. I could honestly find no logical explanation concerning the quality, or lack thereof, of these recent endeavors.

Then, it hit me.

Thomas Miller.

He not only left the band after Twilight in Olympus, he also left behind vast quantities of music and lyrics that he had composed. Symphony X had been living off of this material up until and including parts of the Odyssey.

Very recently, Michael Romeo has had to take up the compositional process himself, no longer being able to "borrow" what Miller left behind. This has resulted in Paradise Lost and Iconoclast, the band's weakest efforts excluding the debut.

I already know what you're thinking: "What about V?"

Well, let me tell you about V.

The band had been planning an epic, to be titled Twilight in Olympus. As we all know, this was dismantled and became V. I believe Miller had composed the bulk of the music, as well as large parts of the Odyssey before he left the band. They have been using Miller's material and passing it off as their own, just like they've done with Verdi, Bach, and Beethoven in the past.

How else can you explain recycled riffs such as Heretic (King of Terrors) and Light up the Night (Evolution/Into the Dragon's Den), and lyrics as bad as "Hit the switch you son of a bitch" and "A masquerade of crazies"?

You can't.

I personally find my explanation that Miller was the creative force behind the band's best music preferable to accepting that Symphony X is the new Metallica.

Thoughts?

 

[manticore999]

You do know they put out an album called Twilight in Olympus, right? Or, am I missing something? Anyway, Miller or no Miller, the last 2 albums have been horrible IMHO. Completely lost what made them unique. Then again, I think the last one sold well, and I expect this one will too. We all know sales are the name of the game, so I guess they're doing what the majority of people want. Good for them, sad for me. Another great band fading into mediocrity. Sigh.

 

[RequiemX]

You're only 1/3 right.

While Thomas Miller greatly contributed to what made Miller-era SX great, the band has been growing and evolving through their own talent the last few albums.

Whether that's good or bad is up to you. (and partly due to when you discovered the band)

 

[RequiemX]

You do know they put out an album called Twilight in Olympus, right? Or, am I missing something? Anyway, Miller or no Miller, the last 2 albums have been horrible IMHO. Completely lost what made them unique. Then again, I think the last one sold well, and I expect this one will too. We all know sales are the name of the game, so I guess they're doing what the majority of people want. Good for them, sad for me. Another great band fading into mediocrity. Sigh.

And IMHO, Odyssey was their worst album (though many consider it their favorite). It depends what each of us gets out of their music.

 

[manticore999]

Actually I'd pic Pl as their worst, with the new one a close 2nd. I wasn't exactly crazy about The Odyssey, but the title track alone made it worth it, to me. One of my all time favorite songs ever.

 

[bigmachine22]

Honestly I thought this theory was junk, however after thinking about it more I started to notice some things:

1. Many agree that "The Witching Hour" was the worst song on DWOT. Guess what, Miller had NO musical writing credit on that song. However he DID have writing credit on DWOT and The Accolade. Coincidence? I think not.

2. Romeo has stated that he does not like V that much (I read this on a previous forum post). I wonder why, considering Miller probably wrote most of it....

It would make sense that Miller was the writing genius behind SX. Since he left things have started going downhill...especially lyrically.

 

[Progbass]

Thats more of a guessing game than any fact. I agree that I can hear Miller's influence in the older albums but I doubt much of his stuff was used on V or The Odyssey. Romeo and Pinnella can write just as good songs as Miller did but they just prefer the heavier side for now.

 

[Liampie]

I think Pinella is just as responsible for the classic Symhpony X sound as Thomas Miller. The few post-V songs that Pinella was involved in (Accolade II, King of Terrors, Awakenings and Paradise Lost) are except for King of Terrors all reminiscent of the old progressive Symphony X. Outside those songs there isn't much that does that so well. Only The Odyssey.

I hate how the classical Symphony X still exists (in Pinella) but it just doesn't come out anymore. Pinella, please write us something again!

 

[metalxmetalx]

Risible theory!

 

[maestro41]

So, I have been thinking very hard about Symphony X's decline these past two albums. I could honestly find no logical explanation concerning the quality, or lack thereof, of these recent endeavors.

Then, it hit me.

Thomas Miller.

He not only left the band after Twilight in Olympus, he also left behind vast quantities of music and lyrics that he had composed. Symphony X had been living off of this material up until and including parts of the Odyssey.

Very recently, Michael Romeo has had to take up the compositional process himself, no longer being able to "borrow" what Miller left behind. This has resulted in Paradise Lost and Iconoclast, the band's weakest efforts excluding the debut.

I already know what you're thinking: "What about V?"

Well, let me tell you about V.

The band had been planning an epic, to be titled Twilight in Olympus. As we all know, this was dismantled and became V. I believe Miller had composed the bulk of the music, as well as large parts of the Odyssey before he left the band. They have been using Miller's material and passing it off as their own, just like they've done with Verdi, Bach, and Beethoven in the past.

How else can you explain recycled riffs such as Heretic (King of Terrors) and Light up the Night (Evolution/Into the Dragon's Den), and lyrics as bad as "Hit the switch you son of a bitch" and "A masquerade of crazies"?

You can't.

I personally find my explanation that Miller was the creative force behind the band's best music preferable to accepting that Symphony X is the new Metallica.

Thoughts?

I applaud your reasoning and your points. however, I dont think things are as absolute as you point out. I say this because of "Iconoclast", the song. IMO that song has all the elements of true Sym X. IMO, I think they would need to share some composition duties because MP is obviously very talented but I think under utilized/represented. I think if they want to return to the neo-classical, symphonic compositions than they will but I guess I get the impression that MJR and co. feel that heavier is the way to go. Its not bad, some of it has to grow on me, but I wish I heard more of the real stuff. More Iconoclast, less Bastards. But I digress.

 

[BARBAROUSSE]

^nostalgia is going to far in this forum ....

 

[Krowsnest]

^nostalgia is going to far in this forum ....

^

 

[bigmachine22]

I think Pinella is just as responsible for the classic Symhpony X sound as Thomas Miller. The few post-V songs that Pinella was involved in (Accolade II, King of Terrors, Awakenings and Paradise Lost) are except for King of Terrors all reminiscent of the old progressive Symphony X. Outside those songs there isn't much that does that so well. Only The Odyssey.

I hate how the classical Symphony X still exists (in Pinella) but it just doesn't come out anymore. Pinella, please write us something again!

Pinella has no more influence over SX and probably never will. Every writing credit on Iconoclast was Romeo (+ Allen for lyrics). So yes, maybe Pinella could revert us back to old SX, but I doubt it. This is now the Allen/Romeo show...

If you really want to do this Thomas Miller test, I suggest you go listen to Edge of Forever then Lords of Chaos. That pretty much summarizes what has happened to SX. Yes Iconoclast was pretty cool and so was WAIL, but for all we know SX could be hoarding Miller riffs which is why these songs sound awesome.

Metallica hoarded Dave Mustaine riffs on RTL and Puppets, but at least they partially credited Mustaine in the songs.

 

[maestro41]

Pinella has no more influence over SX and probably never will. Every writing credit on Iconoclast was Romeo (+ Allen for lyrics). So yes, maybe Pinella could revert us back to old SX, but I doubt it. This is now the Allen/Romeo show...

If you really want to do this Thomas Miller test, I suggest you go listen to Edge of Forever then Lords of Chaos. That pretty much summarizes what has happened to SX. Yes Iconoclast was pretty cool and so was WAIL, but for all we know SX could be hoarding Miller riffs which is why these songs sound awesome.

Metallica hoarded Dave Mustaine riffs on RTL and Puppets, but at least they partially credited Mustaine in the songs.

I dont know man, do you really think MJR needs to hoard anyone else's shit. Really. The guys a genious. I dont think Miller had such an influence because, again, a song like Iconoclast has all the SX cool shit. I guess your point is that MJR and co. hoard someone elses material. Nah. I think they write whatever they want and whatever direction that they want. I want a bit more a return to the older stuff too, but we may never get that.

 

[Xtopher]

ahh the Miller theory...
it will never die... maybe until he decides to make a solo project and his writing sounds like crap we will never know if it was really all him or Romeo-Pinella´s influence on him that made the songs so good.

 

[Xtopher]

Also... times change. Maybe they dont think their 90's music is suited for 2010´s kids so they wont do a whole album like they used to, only a couple of songs (ie Odyssey, Awakenings, Accolade II, Paradise lost, Sacrifice, Seven, Iconoclast, When all is lost)

ps. You want the perfect combination of old and new SX? Revelation baby.

 

[PurpleDink]

I had this crazy theory that maybe all their changes are made subconsciously which is what bands should do to naturally grow, but what do i know.

 

[maestro41]

I had this crazy theory that maybe all their changes are made subconsciously which is what bands should do to naturally grow, but what do i know.

They seem to believe that their albums should have a theme. Like PL was about good vs evil with respect to that particular work. IC seems to represent the conflict between man vs machine. I noticed in the earlier albums there were the masks that seem to suggest a conflict of sorts, two selves, one self divided, like perhaps in the cover of V.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I dont know man, do you really think MJR needs to hoard anyone else's shit. Really. The guys a genious. I dont think Miller had such an influence because, again, a song like Iconoclast has all the SX cool shit. I guess your point is that MJR and co. hoard someone elses material. Nah. I think they write whatever they want and whatever direction that they want. I want a bit more a return to the older stuff too, but we may never get that.

Maybe I would take your opinion more seriously if you could properly spell 'genius'.

 

[RuRoRul]

To be honest the only evidence for this is circumstantial, at best, and it just seems like the typical blame game that goes on when a band's albums go in a direction someone doesn't like or decline in quality (in their opinion), where they pin it all on one person in the band because it's easier to accept. The chances are that, while Thomas Miller did play a part, Michael Romeo was just as responsible for DWOT as he was for PL or Iconoclast, and it just happens that you find one to be a great piece of music and the other not so much. I'm sure you wouldn't agree with all of Romeo's tastes in music (i.e. he probably likes some music you consider bad), so obviously not every piece of music he makes is going to coincide with your tastes.