Time for an Introduction: Afterlife

[Anvil]

Well, I've been trolling this board for quite some time, thought it was just about right to pop in and start a thread on something I'd love to hear opinions on.

I'm not very old... actually just out of highschool... But regardless of age, I've been interested in the afterlife since I can remember... I like to ask myself a lot of questions, such as:

"Should it be a constant fear in the back of our mind?"
"Why should we fear something that is inevitable?"
"Why do we prolong life, only to know the same end?"
"Do we become a conscious entity that watches life forms?"
"Do we move on to a new plain of existence on a different planet?"

I find that these questions cannot be answered by one man, however can be pondered apon. Riddles that we can't solve at our current evolutionary stage maybe.

I’ve heard about people having outer-body experiences on the operation table, being able to see your body from a different state. Maybe a so called, ‘Soul’. Our soul consisting of a level of consciousness that leaves our body on the point of death; maybe ‘Detaching’ from our current bodily state. However, to believe this might be what happens when you die, with this kind of view on the afterlife, you must think, if there have been trillions of deaths among humans, there would be many, many, entities watching at all times. This is where you would have to expect a ‘recycle’ if you will, of these ‘souls’; Humans dieing off, only to become another human many years down the road. Maybe not a human, maybe another kind of creature. This only arrises more questions, such as: How could the intelligence transfer, if at all, to a creature without the capacity to harbour such intelligence?

Death is the only answer to the afterlife... When we die, we hope to then be aware of the intricate and complex answers of death. But to wait for such answers can be frustrating, especially since the human's main natural instinct is to Survive.


Anyways, I thought I'd throw this out there... I really would like to hear your opinions on such a subject. Thanks

- Tyler

 

[derek]

Well, I've been trolling this board for quite some time, thought it was just about right to pop in and start a thread on something I'd love to hear opinions on.

I'm not very old... actually just out of highschool... But regardless of age, I've been interested in the afterlife since I can remember... I like to ask myself a lot of questions, such as:

"Should it be a constant fear in the back of our mind?"
"Why should we fear something that is inevitable?"
"Why do we prolong life, only to know the same end?"
"Do we become a conscious entity that watches life forms?"
"Do we move on to a new plain of existence on a different planet?"

I find that these questions cannot be answered by one man, however can be pondered apon. Riddles that we can't solve at our current evolutionary stage maybe.

I’ve heard about people having outer-body experiences on the operation table, being able to see your body from a different state. Maybe a so called, ‘Soul’. Our soul consisting of a level of consciousness that leaves our body on the point of death; maybe ‘Detaching’ from our current bodily state. However, to believe this might be what happens when you die, with this kind of view on the afterlife, you must think, if there have been trillions of deaths among humans, there would be many, many, entities watching at all times. This is where you would have to expect a ‘recycle’ if you will, of these ‘souls’; Humans dieing off, only to become another human many years down the road. Maybe not a human, maybe another kind of creature. This only arrises more questions, such as: How could the intelligence transfer, if at all, to a creature without the capacity to harbour such intelligence?

Death is the only answer to the afterlife... When we die, we hope to then be aware of the intricate and complex answers of death. But to wait for such answers can be frustrating, especially since the human's main natural instinct is to Survive.


Anyways, I thought I'd throw this out there... I really would like to hear your opinions on such a subject. Thanks

- Tyler

Chomsky maintains that death is the end of sensory experience, and thus the death of us...thats it. Many others (deepak chopra, alex grey, george carlin - to an extent) believe death is only the event that means we cease to express our energies in this simple physical way.

I'm deeply spiritual, I've spent much time in meditation since I was a child and attended the rainbow gatherings of South America to try and see what a mass experience of meditation feelings like. All that pondering had lead to to understand some sort of underlying principle (I guess you could call it Tao, if you felt you needed to name it). I see us as part of something much larger, although as mere pieces, we can never understand the full picture. (see, "Oversoul" by Alex Grey). I believe when we die our bodies rot, but consciousness continues, not in the way of my mind, but as the energy that originally came together to form me.

 

[speed]

I essentially agree with the Epicureans on the afterlife. For a refresher:

1. Death is annihilation.
2. The living have not yet been annihilated (otherwise they wouldn't be alive).
3. Death does not affect the living. (from 1 and 2)
4. So, death is not bad for the living. (from 3)
5. For something to be bad for somebody, that person has to exist, at least.
6. The dead do not exist. (from 1)
7. Therefore, death is not bad for the dead. (from 5 and 6)
8. Therefore death is bad for neither the living nor the dead. (from 4 and 7)

Epicurus adds that if death causes you no pain when you're dead, it's foolish to allow the fear of it to cause you pain now.

I think it is quite refreshing to return to a state of nirvana or eternity; no conscious, no anything.

 

[kmik]

I essentially agree with the Epicureans on the afterlife. For a refresher:

1. Death is annihilation.
2. The living have not yet been annihilated (otherwise they wouldn't be alive).
3. Death does not affect the living. (from 1 and 2)
4. So, death is not bad for the living. (from 3)
5. For something to be bad for somebody, that person has to exist, at least.
6. The dead do not exist. (from 1)
7. Therefore, death is not bad for the dead. (from 5 and 6)
8. Therefore death is bad for neither the living nor the dead. (from 4 and 7)

Epicurus adds that if death causes you no pain when you're dead, it's foolish to allow the fear of it to cause you pain now.

I think it is quite refreshing to return to a state of nirvana or eternity; no conscious, no anything.

This only takes one person into account at a time. Your death may be good (or bad) for OTHERS. And I don't even get what you mean by 'Death does not affect the living'?

 

[derek]

I essentially agree with the Epicureans on the afterlife. For a refresher:

1. Death is annihilation.
2. The living have not yet been annihilated (otherwise they wouldn't be alive).
3. Death does not affect the living. (from 1 and 2)
4. So, death is not bad for the living. (from 3)
5. For something to be bad for somebody, that person has to exist, at least.
6. The dead do not exist. (from 1)
7. Therefore, death is not bad for the dead. (from 5 and 6)
8. Therefore death is bad for neither the living nor the dead. (from 4 and 7)

Epicurus adds that if death causes you no pain when you're dead, it's foolish to allow the fear of it to cause you pain now.

I think it is quite refreshing to return to a state of nirvana or eternity; no conscious, no anything.

You've mentioned this before. I would take issue with 3. It is also rather one dimensional in the fact it assumes an experience only version of the world and ignored the notion that consciousness could carry on past actual physical death.

 

[Anvil]

Death affects the living in a very general way... We fear death, because
1. pain is our only source of reason to it.
2. Survival is our main function as a human being.

Personally I don't fear death... I believe its just another hurdle of life that we must embrace. Why fear something that is inevitable?

 

[derek]

Death affects the living in a very general way... We fear death, because
1. pain is our only source of reason to it.
2. Survival is our main function as a human being.

Personally I don't fear death... I believe its just another hurdle of life that we must embrace. Why fear something that is inevitable?

We fear it because it IS inevitable and inescapable. It is perhaps irrational, but fear is often irrational.

I'm more interested in the idea of consciousness continuing past actual physical death. I see the notion of death itself as a non starter, because we will all die. (Although I do believe many bio-scientists believe stem cell research will ensure a person alive today will live to be a 1000). So I prefer to accept my eventual physical death as a certainty and thus write it off as something silly to think about. That leaves me with the question of where I go from there. I, Voyager...perhaps my consciousness lives on!

 

[Anvil]

I also believe my conciousness will move on past death, however to what extent does it 'live'? I've seen some really wierd stuff... I have a client that happens to be a psychic, and I've seen proof of ghosts and such. Its odd however, how this could be tied in as your conciousness moving on. He talks about 'strength' in different ghosts, how some can manifest. But how can two conciousnesses, say... mine and yours, Derick, be different in strength?

 

[Anvil]

hahaha. Well put.

 

[Lord SteveO]

I see death as the end.
Or at least so far as anyone can prove, it is the end.
So seeing as there is no proof that there is an afterlife, a heaven or hell, i see little reason to really worry about it.
With the exception of my will to live and not wanting to die young (with no achievments in life) i have nothing to fear from death.
We hear peopel say we should do certain things in life because our "lives" in the afterlife will be affected by our actions here (like you go to hell for being bad), there is no evidence so i don't base my life on these ideas.

 

[derek]

Tyler, I recommend this book like a whore on this site but check "Conversations on the edge of the apocolypse by David Jay Brown" it covers some of this every interesting subject matter.

I see no reason to see a greater strength in energy, ancient eastern texts believe the body is the coming together of so many different energies that form us for a limited time and when we are gone they travel on. I dont think the idea of a ghost version of ourselves living on is credible, but i'm a great believer in the energies that bind us continuing on and on.

 

[speed]

I see death as the end.
Or at least so far as anyone can prove, it is the end.
So seeing as there is no proof that there is an afterlife, a heaven or hell, i see little reason to really worry about it.
With the exception of my will to live and not wanting to die young (with no achievments in life) i have nothing to fear from death.
We hear peopel say we should do certain things in life because our "lives" in the afterlife will be affected by our actions here (like you go to hell for being bad), there is no evidence so i don't base my life on these ideas.

This is the way I think about things. There is only one life; you might as well live it the way you see best.

 

[Lord SteveO]

It is a good way to look at things though, you have to admit.
I can still lead a brilliant happy life and help others and not cause harm to others without the need to worry about going to heaven or hell.

Put simply, basing your life on a belief that your actions affect you going to one of two places for which there is no evidence even of their existence, is simply irrational.

 

[Anvil]

It is a good way to look at things though, you have to admit.
I can still lead a brilliant happy life and help others and not cause harm to others without the need to worry about going to heaven or hell.

Put simply, basing your life on a belief that your actions affect you going to one of two places for which there is no evidence even of their existence, is simply irrational.

Agreed.

 

[derek]

I'd agree basing a life on the assumption that the consequences of your choices affect some afterlife is idiotic, selfish and plain old silly.

Although, choosing to live the best life so you leave the planet as benevolently as possible, remains a nice choice.

 

[CHUK]

Read about Epicurism, maybe this could help and keep in order about the idea of death and God.

 

[speed]

You've mentioned this before. I would take issue with 3. It is also rather one dimensional in the fact it assumes an experience only version of the world and ignored the notion that consciousness could carry on past actual physical death.

Yes, I agree; however, I doubt consciousness does carry on past physical death. Think of before you were alive: do you remember anything? Did you have a consciousness? I think the same thing happens in death. We simply die.

However, there are all those interesting physics ideas about multiple dimensions etc. WOuldnt it be interesting is this is the case, that one you, continued living due to beneficial choices in health/fitness, while the other died. Its intriguing.

 

[LORD_RED_DRAGON]

Read about Epicurism, maybe this could help and keep in order about the idea of death and God.

could someone please post a link for buying/reading this

 

[Silver Incubus]

I think in death that we go from the physical to the Astral or higher.

I have come to believe that we are just framents of consciousness inside these physical machines. It is true that the more energy you "have" the more at one you feel with everything. So you as a fragment collect more energy, the more you become aware. I think that is what that psychic was talking about "stronger". I have both seen Ghost and experience various out of body experiences, which definately support my beliefs.

 

[Norsemaiden]

I see death as the end.
Or at least so far as anyone can prove, it is the end.
So seeing as there is no proof that there is an afterlife, a heaven or hell, i see little reason to really worry about it.
With the exception of my will to live and not wanting to die young (with no achievments in life) i have nothing to fear from death.
We hear peopel say we should do certain things in life because our "lives" in the afterlife will be affected by our actions here (like you go to hell for being bad), there is no evidence so i don't base my life on these ideas.

That's how I see it too. I don't want to die before I have achieved worthwhile things and I would also fear death if it meant someone who relied upon me was going to be suffering. Also I would fear dying before I had a chance to put some private things in the bin, that would be embarassing to think of someone finding and going "Woooo! What's this?!!" (trying to inject a little humour into the subject.)

People who want their own consciousness to live on for ever have a little to much ego. But there is an afterlife - science tells us so! Assuming that we are all made up of genes, and genes govern our mental processes, in combination with the effect of the environment on how the genes express themselves, then all that is required for you to be born again (or even to be alive in more than one body at the same time) is for those genes to come together again. To increase the chances of this happening you simply need to reproduce with someone not too dissimilar to yourself.

The thing I don't get is why anyone who thinks everyone is basically the same should even be concerned with personal life after death at all. Just be satisfied that humans are alive on Earth after your death, because any of them might as well be you - so what?

Plus one more point: if you suffer brain damage and can no longer think in the way that you presently recognise as being "you", and then you die and this new consciousness (brain damaged) passes into some mythical afterlife - well is that you or what or what the hell!!!