The Afterlife (or lack there of)

[Norsemaiden]

...because Norse society placed value on strength, courage, and fighting skill rather than what we today consider to be "moral" values. Because society places value on whatever is needed for the survival of society. And in a place where it is cold and dangerous and food is relatively scarce and there are fierce warriors everywhere, morals are useless but a strong sword arm is everything. And not being afraid to die in battle is useful beyond words - hence the concept of a glorious death. You see the same thing with the suicide bomber "martyrs" - their society leads them to believe they are doing what is right, because it is necessary for them to sacrifice their lives for their society.

The Muslim martyr/suicide death idea is actually something that was inspired by the Vikings.
I should also mention that death by hanging also allows one to qualify for Valhalla - as it is an Odinistic death.
That was lucky for those condemned in Nuremberg.

The people of the North evolved in harsh conditions, and indeed those conditons forged their notions of morality and their indigenous religion - since replaced by an Asiatic alien abomination.

There was much interaction between Muslims and Vikings with some vikings converting to Islam. Hitler said that had the Norse converted to Islam rather than Christianity the world would now be all White. It might have been the case then, but I don't think it would necessarily work out like that now. (It would be because of the tradition of taking many wives in particular and consequent eugenic effect, rather than any overt aggression).

 

[OldScratch]

I should also mention that death by hanging also allows one to qualify for Valhalla - as it is an Odinistic death.
That was lucky for those condemned in Nuremberg.

Lucky but ironic I suppose, since many of the condemned, the military-men specifically(Keitel, Jodl, even Goring), were horrified that they were to be strung-up like common criminals and not at least afforded the firing-squad customary at the time for enemy soldiers to be put to death. Then again, that whole trial is considered to the day, by many an objective legal and/or historical observer to have been perhaps the lowest point in western juris-prudence in modern times. But that's another tale entirely.

 

[derek]

It was literally a witch-hunt. Perhaps not an entirely undeserved one but still.

 

[Paimon]

I dont think that there is anything to be afraid of.

Im a spiritualist and belive that we will live again.
And i have no fear of dying, since i wont die. just my "shell".

I belive that we will live again, and again until we have fulfilled our purpose on earth. only then will we truly die.

You all know the feeling of seeing someone completly new walking down the street or in a shop. and somehow you know that person but you know for sure that you have never met him or her before.

you remember them from your previous life.


These are my toughts. Agree or disagree

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

I try to be as objective as possible with matters like this, which is probably a part of my scientific upbringing. As much as I would like to be able to continue to exist in some form after my death, I can't imagine how it would be possible, nor can I imagine why the universe might feel any obligation to keep a record of my being that it in all likelihood, never recognized to begin with.

Even if an afterlife does exist though, there are several aspects of the idea that don't sit well with me. As most people know, your entire reality is nothing more than the ability of the nerve cells in your brain to interact with each other. If this process is somehow interferred with, your entire concept of reality changes. Considering this, which state of your own self awareness do you gain back in the afterlife? Do you simply continue into the afterlife in the same cognitive state that you held prior to death? I sure hope not, as it is the norm for neurodegeneration to set in years in advance of death, not even including such abnormalities as strokes, Alzheimer's, and external intrusion. Since this is such an unattractive prospect though, maybe you're reverted back to your child self. Actually wait, that would suck too, because children are stupid. Or maybe your personality is the average of all cognitive states that you've transgressed through within my lifetime. Perhaps your friends and relatives who preceded you in death get to vote on it, or maybe God picks one out for you.

In any case, while I'm not comfortable with the idea of not existing, I can at least take comfort in the fact that I possess the sufficient cognitive power to recognize that I even existed in the first place, and that in my short time here, I may have made a difference in the lives of those who continue in my stead.

 

[Vimana]

There's an important point here, which is that "divine inspiration" is not "divine dictation" so as far as an obscured translation goes, the whole thing was obscure to start.

I only believe what prophets or God say. But since all the words are ancient I don't take it word for word.

 

[isolation_years]

i dunno, as much as i want to think there is this wonderful place where we all go to spend the rest of eternity in happiness with our loved ones, when i actually break it down in my mind i honestly cant picture anything after death, as scary as that is.
i try and not think about it, look at life as a gift, you only get to be here for a little while and then you die and decompose and return to he earth, and so i dont really worry about dieing, it is envitable once our cells are no longer dividing or a freak occurance happens (ie hit by a bus, so i guess in a way i am fine with it, and it inspires me to make the most out of my time here, just really make sure im happy and enjoying the things i have, although im sure nearing the end of my life i will wish it could have been longer
i do hate christianity, but its mostly the politics and things of that nature, id rather not get into it, however i do have a great respect for the morals they set up, although these days to me its important to be a good person not because something bad might happen but just so your a productive member of society, that you help your fellow man, you know? do unto others and such

 

[waif]

I dont think that there is anything to be afraid of.

Im a spiritualist and belive that we will live again.
And i have no fear of dying, since i wont die. just my "shell".

I belive that we will live again, and again until we have fulfilled our purpose on earth. only then will we truly die.

You all know the feeling of seeing someone completly new walking down the street or in a shop. and somehow you know that person but you know for sure that you have never met him or her before.

you remember them from your previous life.


These are my toughts. Agree or disagree

never ever had that feeling.
I also don't believe we have any inherent purpose on earth, aside from passing on our genes. So to me what you're saying is that we die and come back until we get lucky.

 

[isolation_years]

agreed weareinflames, our sole purpose as with any carbon based organism is to pass on our genetic information, to leave fertile offspring

 

[derek]

The possibilities for what happens once we die are legion. What each individual believes is really up to them. It's one of those areas of thought I have a hard time expressing an opinion on. I suppose I'm partly agnostic.

Taking the purely pragmatic route of reproduction misses something for me, and it forgets our status as sentient beings rather than reproducing automatons. It's possible that the end of the organism is the end of all things associated with it (that's paraphrasing Chomsky and to an extent Dawkins, among others) but it's almost an unarguable point. That's not to say it's not worth discussing, only to qualify the notion that throwing out simple epigram as a response is not sensible.

 

[isolation_years]

well agreed, i mean i believe there is nothing after death, i wish there was, that would be great, but i dont believe there is one, but i cannot say i know there is not one, its a question that probably will never be answered sadly, but maybe thats for the best, if we knew there was nothing afterwards, it would probably cause a world wide depression, not for all, but for many, it would be nice to know the is one, but its probably for the best we dont know

 

[mutantllama]

No afterlife scares me. I don't want to die just because of that. But then I tell myself that maybe there could be an afterlife. That there could still be a possibility. I personally don't believe in an afterlife. I try to get the most out of life. I try not to think about death, but I do think of it. I like imagine that I go to a place of peace and happiness, but then I tell myself how it is impossible. If I could choose my afterlife I would choose being a ghost. I'm not talking about a ghost that scares people but more of a "friendly" ghost. That way I could still walk this Earthly plane. I could see my children and my grandchildren. I could even communicate maybe with them.

 

[waif]

If I could choose my afterlife I would choose being a ghost. I'm not talking about a ghost that scares people but more of a "friendly" ghost. That way I could still walk this Earthly plane. I could see my children and my grandchildren. I could even communicate maybe with them.

So...basically, you would choose to not die?

 

[judas69]

As nature provides a means in, it also provides a means out. All things are eventually forgotten.

When you're dying alone in agony at some old age in a cold hospital bed soaked in your own filth, wondering how surreal and impossible your life had been, death arrives as a friend in the night and you'll take his hand to never remember.

 

[judas69]

I suppose I'm partly agnostic.

This is an interesting response. Not only is Derek unsure of his agnosticism, but he's also uncertain of how unsure he really is, if he is uncertain at all.

It seems to me like you've been mystified into some sort of philosophical limbo-limbo.

 

[waif]

When you're dying alone in agony at some old age in a cold hospital bed soaked in your own filth, wondering how surreal and impossible your life had been, death arrives as a friend in the night and you'll take his hand to never remember.

That's rather poetic...

This is an interesting response. Not only is Derek unsure of his agnosticism, but he's also uncertain of how unsure he really is, if he is uncertain at all.

It seems to me like you've been mystified into some sort of philosophical limbo-limbo.

 

[mutantllama]

So...basically, you would choose to not die?

Too a degree. But as a "ghost" I could be quiet. I wouldn't be seen, but I could move things around physically to communicate.


Probably the darkest afterlife I could think of is being stuck at a place where it never ends. There is nothing there but yourself. You would be stuck there for an eternity. You would never see anyone else.

 

[waif]

Too a degree. But as a "ghost" I could be quiet. I wouldn't be seen, but I could move things around physically to communicate.

That's cheating. You aren't really dying...to me, death means the loss of ability to interact with the physical world...

Probably the darkest afterlife I could think of is being stuck at a place where it never ends. There is nothing there but yourself. You would be stuck there for an eternity. You would never see anyone else.

Listen to the song Dead Eternity by In Flames. It's about that.

 

[derek]

This is an interesting response. Not only is Derek unsure of his agnosticism, but he's also uncertain of how unsure he really is, if he is uncertain at all.

It seems to me like you've been mystified into some sort of philosophical limbo-limbo.

As caustic and irreverent as always...

A poorly coined phrase, I'll concede. To qualify: I'm aware of the limits of agnosticism, so I tend to avoid buying into it wholesale.

This thread really needs edited.

 

[The Poona of Peshwa]

I try to be as objective as possible with matters like this, which is probably a part of my scientific upbringing. As much as I would like to be able to continue to exist in some form after my death, I can't imagine how it would be possible, nor can I imagine why the universe might feel any obligation to keep a record of my being that it in all likelihood, never recognized to begin with.

In an Einsteinian four-dimensional universe you'll always exist in a very literal sense. Just, you know, "back there". Information theory says that there is indeed a record of your being, and it can't be destroyed either, not even by a black hole! So we're all ineradicable parts of the grand structure of the universe.

As for life after death, well, the brain is an organ. To think that the mind continues to function after brain death is like thinking that digestion occurs long after the stomach and intestines are dust.

I think that there are lots of consolations in the scientific worldview that make up for our mortality, though. The elements that form everything from my body to the air I breathe exploded out of the hearts of ancient stars. To live at all is miracle enough.