Do we have souls or are we complex machines?

[Hallucinations]

i call bullshit here. you know nothing about what happens upon death, unless of course you can recall it.

Forgive me if the observation of my granda's corpse was not enough to base my opinion of the ego-destroying, consciousness annulling consequences of death He seemed to have his ego destroyed but he might have only been pretending.

atoms are certainly something we have observed and studied under a microscope. and our body is certainly composed of them, seeing as how we have observed this and agreed on it being a fact. but, "i am" just composed of atoms at the end of the day? i dunno, maybe this is my sad and bruised ego wanting to live on, but, i think this attitude is a common and somewhat dull outlook, although it does make substance for a simple,
selfless, warm humor.

I don't know man, dull (and nihilistic ) as it may be, I just choose to take consolation from something with a little hard evidence behind it until I can further my own studies in science and perhaps read a few more chemistry books . At the most basic point everything is broken down into protons, neutrons and electrons (and quarks, if what they say is true) so I guess I'll stick with my concept for the time being.

i think an absolute truth is that there is an infinite amount of fascinating science-worthy knowledge yet to be hypothesized and proven that builds us up to be much more than "just composed of atoms."

+ 1

 

[JoeVice]

Forgive me if the observation of my granda's corpse was not enough to base my opinion of the ego-destroying, consciousness annulling consequences of death He seemed to have his ego destroyed but he might have only been pretending.

well, at least your granda's protons and quirks are still intact. who knows maybe he is gently and peacefully rotting away, fully conscious, while smiling down upon you from heaven.

 

[Astrum]

There is no answer to this question, and ultimately no point in discussing it. Human bodies are complex machines, made of countless parts that allow us all to function. But having a human body is not what makes us distinctly human; there is something else. Within the brain? Possibly. I like to call it a mind. Is it a "soul", as such? I have no idea. But we have something besides our bodies that makes us distinctly human.

 

[razoredge]

I dont know what people issues would be with discussion of anything but whatever.

I have completated all the various things that could come upon death.
Reincarnation... the ever growing population seems to disprove this.
Heaven, cant see it from my house.... even though I onced believed it was right outside the door.
A Spirit world - yea OK but what do they do there ? and is that getting over populated too ? Must be by now, ey ?

I believe mankind and mammals have a living soul, its what makes our hearts "skip a beat", our emotions to become overwhelmed and when healthy drives us in our lives. I believe some people have much less than others and I believe people rob bits and pieces of each others soul, some make it their favorite pastime or even a living at it.

I do not believe people change, so I cant go for scenerio 1 with the brain cell business

I believe a tree has a soul... it lives in me as I can look up and admire its existance. I know my animals have had more soul than a human could comprehend.

In order to believe that a soul lives on after the body grows weiry and shuts down. One has to believe that there is ??? a parallel plane ??? that we can not see or find for unknown reasons. I entertain the possibility that it exists but was always highly sceptical.

That said I have been known to go to where I buried my most amazing dog and take him for a walk.... yea laugh... but he existed in my soul and was a very important part of my dayly life. I will also say that as I drove from the vets, after we put him down, with his body in the back of the car.... I felt his presence leave me and this was a good five minutes after the fact. I wouldnt begin to try to explain it, it shocked the hell out of me, but it was strong, undeniable and slapped me up side the face big time. I went from a full fleged bawling my eyes out to complete silence in an instant.

So as time grows on I have become less of a "know it all" in this regard as I was when I was an idolistic, cocky know it all young man.

So most of my life I believed with less scepticism we are simply the most complex of organic matter and return to the earth same as the leaves of a tree.

but deep inside, somewhere in the background of my mind I have believed most closest to the beliefs of the Native Americans and that was long before I educated myself... somewhat... with their beliefs.

So maybe this spirit world exists where our souls fly free of the termoil and man made chaos... we know as life.

I've posted this around here before but this is a poem I wrote for a friend who lost his father, but within a year I ironically was reciting it a dear friends funeral. My musical soul mate. This is how I feel we should view life and death while we still have life.

I Bow Before You​

Another brother has passed beyond
dreams wrought Iron gait
No longer bound to worldly things
need not yield … “wait”

Today a fallen soldier
no longer needs to fight
Wield his sword, need not no more
for what he believes is right

I bow before you on this day
all fathers wayward sons
For carry on, it is you must
till your days too are done

Look far and wide this solemn day
take its presence in
Breathe deeply then just hold it
for a moment … remembering when …

Senses dulled … denial walls
now thirst for glimpse of light
Drink deeply from this cup of tea
we’ve dearly titled “life”

I offer this to you my friend’s
for what it might be worth
The time is short and bitter sweet
we trod upon this earth​

 

[The Poona of Peshwa]

I know how much 'scientism' is reviled around these parts, but I really like Doug Hofstadter's conception of the soul or the self. Has anyone here read Godel, Escher, Bach? Hofstadter says that a soul is a strange loop of self-reference, like a camera pointed at its own monitor, or even a mathematical theorem. He thinks that humans have 'big souls', and that small copies of the soul live on in those who have internalized the essence of the deceased. And he thinks that animals and even to a lesser degree computers have 'small souls'.

The fact is that we're all made of billions of cells, none of which are in any sense aware. Somehow we've evolved a soul. It's not mystical, but it's nonetheless amazing. There is no consciousness after death, of that I am nearly certain. Life's a bitter gift.

 

[razoredge]

Doug Hofstadter's conception of the soul or the self. Has anyone here read Godel, Escher, Bach? Hofstadter says that a soul is a strange loop of self-reference, like a camera pointed at its own monitor, or even a mathematical theorem. He thinks that humans have 'big souls', and that small copies of the soul live on in those who have internalized the essence of the deceased.

I think these people have too much time on their hands, a soul and math ? To me math is about the driest thing on the earth and relating that to someones soul is really reaching.

I believe at the best, here on earth ones soul only lives on to some degree in their offspring and even less in those that remember them. Then as time passes these people are also gone.

 

[hibernal_dream]

There is no consciousness after death, of that I am nearly certain.

How?

 

[The Poona of Peshwa]

a) There was no consciousness before birth.
b) I spend a good deal of time unconscious, even while my brain is intact. If I get bonked on the head or go into a deep sleep I lose consciousness, I can't imagine that if my head is removed or otherwise destroyed that it would maintain consciousness of any sort.
c) At what point in natural history did the capacity for life after death appear? Do frogs get an afterlife?

 

[Silver Incubus]

I have thought about this topic, and the only real definition of soul that I think would make any sense would be your dna. What I mean by that is if your exact DNA was to happen again in the future, is that reincarnation? Almost like a clone. The soul or sole then would be the basic genetic structure but it wouldn't be the you with all the experience and learnings, just your basic dna reincarnation. The reason I think this is that I have heard of studies done with twins, some separated at birth, where as grownup they were nearly the same person although they had never met growing up.

 

[The Poona of Peshwa]

You shouldn't overestimate some eerie co-incidences. If you actually know any identical twins you'll know that they have quite distinct personalities or 'souls'. Of course having an identical genome will result in some pretty striking similarities in personality, but social conditioning will inevitably take people in different directions.

I suppose I get your point, but it's really just a semantic one, and I don't think it's particularly helpful. DNA could get shuffled for a billion years and your exact genome wouldn't be replicated, besides.