tips for beginning your audio career

Maybe I came off a tad too blunt. Undercutting within REASON... I don't know if I'd get into a price war, but beating another guy's price isn't THAT out of the question, is it fellas? You have to take into account how much you think you're worth and keep in mind that a band that spends 100 dollars a day will probably not be as focussed as a band that spends 500 a day. As far the gas station comparison goes... You have never seen one gas station post $2.51 and the one across the street selling for $2.50 9/10? Maybe it's just in Dayton, Ohio. ;)
 
The consensus was to do stuff for free and work on yoru own stuff, learn how to really do it through an internship, then when you are ready, go out on your own and open up your own studio. :D

The concensus around here has always been never to do anything for free, cos it will come back to bite you in the ass. :lol:
 
I take 300€/song so 1500€ for a 5 songs EP....it seems pretty decent here and also bands of young guys accept with enthusiasm.
I've only done my first promo song for free, after that I charged immediately 300€
 
Well you're doing better than me in that regard XeS :)

Yes, start by charging low, according to your ability and the services you provide, but look to ramp up your rates as you go along. Ultimately undercutting the other guys around you will just hurt everybody. Don't worry about what they're doing. Just charge by what YOU'RE worth.
 
The problem is people charging so little that they are only making like $0.50/hour at the end of the day. Even if these fucking kids charged just enough that they were still making minimum wage we'd have no problem.

Say to record a complete song properly and churn out a quality mix breaks down into the following timeline...

2 hours drum setup/tuning/micing (takes longer than this if you want to do a half decent job, but let's keep things on the short side)
2 hours drum tracking
1 hour drum editing
2 hours guitar tracking (this is ridiculous, it takes forever to track guitars but again, keep it short just to keep things interesting)
1 hour bass tracking
2 hours vocal tracking
1 hour vocal editing
4 hours mixing
=15 hours x $9.50 (min wage in Ontario) = $142.50/song in order to make as much money as you would at McDonalds.

You HAVE TO CHARGE THAT MUCH to PAY YOUR BILLS. There's not enough hours in the month to work enough to cover your expenses if you are charging $30/song.

$30/15 hours = $2 hour. Say you are recording 10 hours per day every day all month. 10 x $2 x 30 days = $600/month income. LOL.

Expenses:
Rent: $300 (again lets keep things low for fun)
Car Insurance: $100
Food: $50/week x 4 weeks = $200
Gas: $40/week x 4 weeks = $160
Cellphone: $30

That's already $790/month in expenses when you are only making $600, by working 10 hours a day EVERY SINGLE DAY. No extra money for gear or to build a proper facility there is there?

SkylightstudiosBEN had a good idea, if you are going to be really cheap and you are still learning, advertise your services as a demo studio, for new bands who need something to throw up on Myspace or whatever. This lets you charge less because the product isn't even SUPPOSED to be an album ready recording, and you can keep learning and get better. But at the end of the day, when you decide to call yourself a studio and start trying to make a living, you HAVE to be making enough to support yourself, and charging peanuts isn't enough.

Do you think Andy got started by charging $30/hour and recording out of his bedroom? Record yourself and your own band, close friends who are trying to HELP you learn and build the knowledge, and when you are confident with you abilities THEN start trying to record other bands, but make sure you are making enough money doing it to pay your bills.

The whole reason minimum wage exists is because that's the minimum amount of money required to live off of, and that's if you are renting a spare room in someone's house and eating Raman noodles for every meal. It definitely won't cover the rent you pay for the studio space.
 
Adds also taxes, if you wanna do this work in a legit way. Here in Italy, but also in Scandinavia, at the end of the year you have to give the 45% - 50% of your income to the government. So if you ask 300€/song in a no-legit work, you have to ask 600€/song if you do it as your main job.
 
Maybe I came off a tad too blunt. Undercutting within REASON... I don't know if I'd get into a price war, but beating another guy's price isn't THAT out of the question, is it fellas? You have to take into account how much you think you're worth and keep in mind that a band that spends 100 dollars a day will probably not be as focussed as a band that spends 500 a day. As far the gas station comparison goes... You have never seen one gas station post $2.51 and the one across the street selling for $2.50 9/10? Maybe it's just in Dayton, Ohio. ;)

every gas station does the 9/10 thing ;)
 
My advice for starting out on your own is to go to gigs- bring nice looking CD's with your best work and start getting talking to bands. Follow it up with myspace messaging to drive home the point. Simply showing an interest in the band is enough for you to be an option next time they want to record.

I side with the guys who say start cheap (not free though). Why will a band pay a guy who's only got a bit of experience under his belt the same as a studio thats been cranking out consistent recordings for years? Rasie your prices as your gear gets better- that what I'm doing, soon as my gear starts getting to the more pro side of things my price tag will go up, I don't see how I can justify charging a band 250euro a day for a recording with a firepod in my spare dining room with my housemates watching TV in the next room. I prefer to be busy than get paid well for a project every now and again.

I find its the passion that guys starting out have that can really help sell them to bands- I know its been working for me. I've recorded several bands now who I've done live sound for a couple of time- they know I like their stuff and have an interest so they know I'll care more about it than a studio who just sees them as the next client. They've said it to me.

After a few projects on your own if the bands are happy word will spread and you'll get busier and bigger names will come. Treat every project like its your most important- you're only as good as your last work.

EDIT- I don't record as my main source of income but it is a vital part of it, I make a living off of live sound and it can get VERY hard to pay the rent and bills. I don't mind living on peanuts but it certainly isn't for everyone. I don't pay taxes as all my work is cash in hand. Good in that I dont have to apy taxes, bad in that I can't qualify for social welfare. I've got a good few mates on the dole who make alot more money than me and have all day every day free to do whatever they want
 
Plus early on its much more important to have a large quantity of work coming out rather than spending one's time waiting on 'the' band to break out. Lower rates help expedite that. Just temper that idea with the fact that you want to eventually work your way up to decent bands that you can actually do a semi decent job producing, so gradually increase those rates accordingly, or at least try to do favors for better bands and get your portfolio in action.
 
these are all great responses, im definitely taking notes here

my main problem at the moment is getting used to limited gear/ home studio equipment. I was trained up on some fairly large consoles with a decent chunk of rack gear, I know my way around an SSL G and SSL K back and forward. Now I don't have access to that gear it's been hard to adjust down to a 003+ and an array of plugin's. I even bought a Euphonix MC Mix to try and trick myself into mixing more hands on and being able to do automation on the fly.
 
Well you're doing better than me in that regard XeS :)

Yes, start by charging low, according to your ability and the services you provide, but look to ramp up your rates as you go along. Ultimately undercutting the other guys around you will just hurt everybody. Don't worry about what they're doing. Just charge by what YOU'RE worth.

totally agree "Charge what you are worth" don't give a crap what everyone is charging
 
tips for beginning your audio career

My response to this question is always as follows.

Get out while you can...

But if you're stubborn like the rest of us ( :) ), be prepared to spend a lot of money and time with little return at first... if you're gifted and can actually make money while enjoying it, then you have succeeded.

Beginning, I'd say you're off to a stellar start by being here... this forum and the willingness to learn is ALL you need to learn... other than gear to practice on, of course.

Good luck.
 
Plus early on its much more important to have a large quantity of work coming out rather than spending one's time waiting on 'the' band to break out.

+1
This is the big problem when you start. You have not a name and you have to let bands to know you.
Personally for this purpose I ask one of the biggest band in my city, to record a free promo and they accept.
The problem is that initially you don't have a large quantity of work, as Ermz said. You receive sporadic requests, for future recordings and if you wanna live with this job, it's very hard initially.
In fact, next weeks I'll start a data entry job for an insurance company, for 3 months, because I have no bands at the moment (I have 2 bands for the summer).
This problem is increased so much nowadays because everybody wanna do this job.
I spent lot of money in my equipment last year, because I wanna start with a decent amount of gear and look more professional than the horde of kids with a pod and a firepod that wanna record.
Initially it worked... I have lot of mics, I record real drums, I tune drums, I set everything and not only a plugin, etc... but now I notice there is a new kid that works more than me, for "2 cent", with a fuckin' dfhs, impulses, only one mic for vocals.....but bands go in his bedroom to record. This guy asked to a friend of mine what he uses for drums, what he uses to trigger....because he knew nothing about....after a weeks he had already his myspace offering recordings. Ok, it's a free world. But I waited 2 years before offering some services online, because I didn't have all the equipment I need to offer a professional services. Probably I'm a stupid thinking that these things still count at the end.
So....I don't know which sorts this job will have....I'm not so optimistic sincerely.
Yeah, you study, you buy gear, but the first kid that ask 100€ for a full ep, stoles you the work. Yeah, you look more professional, you record the real thing....but if someone asks less money, for the 90% of the bands he's better. And sincerely, if I have to ask 100€ for a full EP, I would definitely sell all my gear.
Unfortunately, it's no more an elite job, nowadays it's a simple job like making t-shirts or doing websites and everybody can buy an interface and claims "I'm running a studio".
I decided to do this job for the passion....because I feel very good when I tune a drums, when I hear a drums that sounds really well, when I run my amps really loud, and when I see the face of the guys when they like the sound we create.........I wouldn't do this fantastic job with a fuckin e-drum, with dfhs, and podfarm for guitars....I think it's ridicolous because you loose all the energy of the real thing. Yeah, it works, you get great results the same.....but in my opinion it's ridicolous.
 
XES made a great point, either a good band or your own recording will attract bands if it sounds good.

I got my 1st band asking for my services after my first self recording. And I didn't even advertised myself in any way.
 
This is the big problem when you start. You have not a name and you have to let bands to know you.
Personally for this purpose I ask one of the biggest band in my city, to record a free promo and they accept.
The problem is that initially you don't have a large quantity of work, as Ermz said. You receive sporadic requests, for future recordings and if you wanna live with this job, it's very hard initially.
In fact, next weeks I'll start a data entry job for an insurance company, for 3 months, because I have no bands at the moment (I have 2 bands for the summer).
This problem is increased so much nowadays because everybody wanna do this job.
I spent lot of money in my equipment last year, because I wanna start with a decent amount of gear and look more professional than the horde of kids with a pod and a firepod that wanna record.
Initially it worked... I have lot of mics, I record real drums, I tune drums, I set everything and not only a plugin, etc... but now I notice there is a new kid that works more than me, for "2 cent", with a fuckin' dfhs, impulses, only one mic for vocals.....but bands go in his bedroom to record. This guy asked to a friend of mine what he uses for drums, what he uses to trigger....because he knew nothing about....after a weeks he had already his myspace offering recordings. Ok, it's a free world. But I waited 2 years before offering some services online, because I didn't have all the equipment I need to offer a professional services. Probably I'm a stupid thinking that these things still count at the end.
So....I don't know which sorts this job will have....I'm not so optimistic sincerely.
Yeah, you study, you buy gear, but the first kid that ask 100€ for a full ep, stoles you the work. Yeah, you look more professional, you record the real thing....but if someone asks less money, for the 90% of the bands he's better. And sincerely, if I have to ask 100€ for a full EP, I would definitely sell all my gear.
Unfortunately, it's no more an elite job, nowadays it's a simple job like making t-shirts or doing websites and everybody can buy an interface and claims "I'm running a studio".
I decided to do this job for the passion....because I feel very good when I tune a drums, when I hear a drums that sounds really well, when I run my amps really loud, and when I see the face of the guys when they like the sound we create.........I wouldn't do this fantastic job with a fuckin e-drum, with dfhs, and podfarm for guitars....I think it's ridicolous because you loose all the energy of the real thing. Yeah, it works, you get great results the same.....but in my opinion it's ridicolous.

Great point:headbang:

I'm curently begin in a similar way except that I haven't open website and myspace because I don't considering myself like a producer actually (for reason see below:lol:).
For moment I only run a little home studio at home, (have by chance a really cool drummer and friend and he let me record at his place (we curently working on a proper acoustic treated room)...). I can't and I didn't want call this a studio before have all vital gears and proper build/design place for that (mean real studio).
By chance I curently working (since 3months:lol:) on my first produced record for long date friend of mine. Hope this can put trigger on something else... And if I hit, my plan is to continu tracking some elements (like guitars and bass since I reamp everything) like I do actually and rent studio for drum (isn't a dream to record drum with a 4K, ton of worldclass outboard...?).