To anyone accusing Nevermore of selling out...

[Unregistered]

bite me. They deserve the success and money (if they're even getting any)...imagine pluggin' away at something for years and years, and not being recognized or even paid well for your efforts? I know the band hasn't changed - they are still the cool, creative, and imaginative guys they have been since Sanctuary and early Nevermore.
Few of you know what goes on behind the scenes with recording, touring, and record labels - look at what's going on even with the Overkill tour and the bullshit with CM.
For those of you that don't know, labels pay for the bands to record. Once the album is out selling, that money is used to pay back for the recording and the touring (recording can take up to a month, even longer, and that includes airfare to the studio, food and lodging, plus salary for the staff at the studio - touring includes food, hotels, and a bus or RV for 7-9 guys)...imagine 5 band members plus crew splitting what is LEFT after CM takes its cut...maybe they can go to McDonald's if it's a good day. But you guys should know all of this. Easy for all of you to cry sellout when most of you probably have a much more stable daily existance. If what they're doing is selling out, I hope they keep doing it because they're finally making some money and are happier with their lives.

 

[metalized]

Cmon dude! do you know how much are they getting paid for each show? (i don't)

 

[true light]

yeah, and I get my super when I retire...

ac/dc said as LONG WAY TO THE TOP.

thanks for the insight, I don't really get to hear about much..

how does PANTERA make so much.

 

[Captain Beard]

Two words: COME(they swallow it)-Mercialization.
No, but probably the real version of the word.

 

[mgp]

I've been in a pissy mood obviously, shouldn't be taking it out on the board I guess, people don't realize maybe...
I get pissy just signing in this damn thing, that was me who started this thread.
Anyways, I have no idea how other bands make so much money - I guess it's management and contracts, and the label you're on. Pantera have been around for quite a long time and get much more exposure and recognition than Nevermore - videos, advertising, etc. I think they've also toured with more "radio rock" bands, increasing fanbase as well.
Labels are in charge of PR and advertising - I haven't read a metal mag in quite some time, but I think Dead Heart was one of the only Nevermore albums that got any magazine space, at least in the US - but I could be wrong. Some bands have fanclubs that do mailouts to inform fans of touring info and albums...seems to me, if you don't have a computer, you're almost screwed in finding out when a band is coming to town or when their album is coming out...

Anyways, It just seems like recently the band is getting more popular, and I think it's a great thing - it's what I am sure was the ultimate goal of the band, to have their music heard by the masses. I know a lot of fans enjoy talking to the band at the shows and maybe are worried that will change if they get bigger - pretty selfish reason to not want them to be big if you ask me.
I just don't know why people have to beat these guys down.

 

[spawn]

Well, why worry about something thats out of your control?

I HATE the whole sellout debate, as soon as a band makes some money, people yell sellouts and its bullshit 99 percent of the time. I hope Nevermore goes on to sell 10 million albums and everyone screams sellout, because when everyone screams sellout, you really know you have hit it big!

 

[jimbobhickville]

What I don't get is people crying sellout with such an awesome, heavy, un-radio friendly album. I understand the Metallica and Megadeth stuff because they castrated their sound in order to get success, but Nevermore haven't toned it down. So they experimented a little, and some people didn't like it so much, so what. I seriously doubt that they were doing it to makes tons of money (although that is always the hope); they did it because they wanted to. Read some interveiws with Warrel when he talks about all the pressure Sanctuary's label put on them to change into a grunge band. He is definitely not in the habit of caving to record label's demands. And yes, I know that Jeff writes the music, but he collaborates with Warrel. They didn't sell out; people just woke up. Besides, it's not like they all of a sudden became huge. What did DHIADW sell? I wonder if it has even sold more than DNB. I think this is more of a cases of a band finally getting some label backing and advertising. All of their albums should have sold millions, IMO; and if they do, I'll cry sellout j/k

 

[spawn]

Well this horse has been flogged to death, but metallica DIDNT sell out. They sold 3 MILLION copies of Justice, THEN changed their sound. Thats not selling out, thats taking a very big risk (that ultimately paid off with the black album).
I dont really much like anything they did after the black album, but too many people confuse being crap with selling out

 

[mgp]

Well, why worry about something thats out of your control?

Hi Spawn, you're right, and thanks for reminding me! I do forget that people don't change until they're ready to - nothing you can do but waste your breath, so why bother...usually why I don't post much anymore.

I tend to take on stuff that I shouldn't worry about, yet these guys are like family to me and I can't help but feel like sticking up for them when people give them flack.
And I agree with your Metallica post! Take it easy!

 

[jimbobhickville]

Originally posted by spawn
Well this horse has been flogged to death, but metallica DIDNT sell out. They sold 3 MILLION copies of Justice, THEN changed their sound. Thats not selling out, thats taking a very big risk (that ultimately paid off with the black album).
I dont really much like anything they did after the black album, but too many people confuse being crap with selling out

I'm gonna have to disagree with that. I remember watching interviews with the band just prior to the release of the Black album. They talked about how they hired the producer, Bob Rock I believe is his name, from Motley Crue (at least I think it was Motley Crue) to help them with their sound. The producer had a huge influence on the music, from what they said. That is what I call selling out. Yes, Justice sold well, but they still wanted to be bigger (isn't their greed obvious from their actions of late?). They hired a producer to help them change their sound into something more popular. That is why I think they sold out, not just because the black album sucks and I was personally extremely disappointed with it. Megadeth was a bit more of a transition, they took 3 albums to do it completely, not just one.

I could go into a few more reasons, but I don't feel like it. Yes, this issue has been beaten to death, but I didn't want people to think I was just jumping on the "sellout" bandwagon; I actually have real reasons for my opinion. If you don't see it the same way, great. It's nice to hear opposing views.

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

I don't think nevermore has sold out. I just don't like DHIADW terribly much.

Personal opinion. That's what this board is about.

 

[Captain Beard]

Your opinion on DHIADW is understandable.
I'm going to be hated for this, but I really didn't care for DNB.
Everything else was good by my account.

 

[spawn]

Originally posted by mgp
Hi Spawn, you're right, and thanks for reminding me! I do forget that people don't change until they're ready to - nothing you can do but waste your breath, so why bother...usually why I don't post much anymore.

I tend to take on stuff that I shouldn't worry about, yet these guys are like family to me and I can't help but feel like sticking up for them when people give them flack.
And I agree with your Metallica post! Take it easy!

Couldnt agree more about the seeing them as family bit, its hard not to when you listen to the all the time!
As for the metallica post, well im about to get into another argument about it..............

 

[spawn]

Originally posted by jimbobhickville
I could go into a few more reasons, but I don't feel like it. Yes, this issue has been beaten to death, but I didn't want people to think I was just jumping on the "sellout" bandwagon; I actually have real reasons for my opinion. If you don't see it the same way, great. It's nice to hear opposing views.

NNNNNghh arghhhhhhhhhhh! No....dont reply.......its just a vicious circle, dont get caught again...... Ahh its no good, its happening again!!!
I have flogged this horse to death so badly it is nothing but a lifeless carcass, as slayer would say.
But seeing as you didnt scream and rant like a 2 year old, you are obviously mature enough for me to answer without it turning into a slanging match (I cant believe i just used the word mature, whats this world coming to?)
You see what you bastards have reduced me to?

Here goes (Deep breath!) (Shit I hope coops doesnt see this megadeth rant of mine!)

1/ I cant BELIEVE you seriously think megadeth didnt sell out! Dave Mustaine said himself that he changed the way he wrote the records (starting on CTE, which I REALLY like for the record!) and how they sounded so he could sell more of them. THATS selling out!! He even got in the new producers explicitly because they had sold heaps of records with other bands! thats exactly what you accused metallica of!
Then worst of all, when he found out noone was buying his albums anymore, he suddenly decides he is metal again and comes out with a limp wristed "comeback" record that sounds like risk crossed with CW! (I didnt mind CW actually, but im digressing!)
Now I give dave respect for that because at least he had the balls to admit what he did and that he realises what people want and what he is best at. Doesnt change the fact that he did it though!

2/ Bob Rock has worked with Skid Row, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue and HEAPS of other bands, as metallica said it best "If flemming rasmussen did a bon jovi record would it sound like metallica?" Bob did have an influence, yes, but nowhere near as much as is made out!

3/ If you had just released an album that sold 3 million copies and wanted to sell even more next time, would you change producers, studios and your entire way of songwriting? Nope, you would make and justice for all part 2!

The black album is one of my favourite metallica albums (I dont really like anything after that as load and reload seem like pale imitations of the black album to me) this doesnt mean everyone has to like it as everyone has different tastes, but the only reason people seem so pissed is that Metallica DID change their sound AND were VERY VERY successful at it! (For one album anyway )

The napster thing is a whole other argument that im staying WELL away from, thats things like the hydra, you cut off one argument and 2 more show up!

Ok, that oughta about cover it!
Answers in essay form, no more than 1000 words by tomorrow, this counts towards your final marks people!

 

[Captain Beard]

1. If Metallica covered Nevermore, would it sound like Death?

2. If Death covered Iced Earth, would it sound like Limp Bizkit?

3. If Nevermore covered the Backstreet Boys, would I buy that Record?

The answer to all of these is "Yes."

Question 1: I'd be laughing about it so much I would buy it.

Question 2: I would buy it for Chuck's ingenious sense of humor.

Question 3: They would make "Bye Bye Bye" sound kickass (to a degree.)

 

[metalized]

Well 1000 words words are quite a lot. it is very good that the 1000 word limit is starting tomorrow.
All these years i always had the impression that metallica was a true group (not true metal for fucks sake). They did everything to satisfy themselves for starters but their fans ment everything to them. anywhere, anytime they praised their fans, metal etc. for being so great and famous and rich.
but out of the sudden they were bored to play metal and begun to play some mix of soundgarden, stoner rock, the almand brothers band with the excuse that they wanted to evolve as musicians. fine! whats wrong with that, then? well the answer is the one that is never followed:
either disband and make a new group named "whatever" and play what ever you like just to evolve as musician and artist,
or make a side project and do as noted above.
But this is quite hard isn't it? why not exploit the sure success and continue with the name we 've already built. we don't give a damn about metal anymore, our fans will be dissappointed but no worries mates. we will make new ones, which will be more in number! yooohoo! more money, more fame! we will participate in mtv, in the awards, we will become fashion.
did i hear that the new metallica album will be a return to the roots?
is this something to do with metal taking a large piece of the pie nowadays. metal rising? he!
i guess halford (ressurection is a very good album) out of the blue started believing in metal again. ha!
and the course of metallica during the past years, i am sure that it doesn't have something to do with metal not being that popular, huh?
hypocricy, appart from a very good death metal group, is one of the attitudes i really hate.
and metallica are hypocrites. i dont' know if this is called sellout. i don't want to get to the proccess of frinding out or defining the term sellout.
but to me metallica are hypocrites and like those i will perceive them.

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

1. If Metallica covered Nevermore, would it sound like Death?
2. If Death covered Iced Earth, would it sound like Limp Bizkit?


The answer to all of these is "Yes."

Question 1: I'd be laughing about it so much I would buy it.
Question 2: I would buy it for Chuck's ingenious sense of humor.

THAT'S HORSE-SHIT!!!

If death covered Iced Earth, it would NOT sound like limp-bizkit. It is just like Death covering 'painkiller' by priest, it didn't sound like Preist, it sounded like death. And actually, i think that a cover of 'The coming curse' (minus the piano introduction and the monk-outtro!) or 'Disciples of the lie' by Death would be awesome... truly. Chuck would SLAUGHTER.

With all of the mention of 'metallica' in this thread, i would like to add that death covering 'Blackened' would be awesome.

Metallica covering Nevermore. Actually, i have always seen a similarity between 'And justice' and 'POE'. I think EITHER nevermore or metallica covering songs from each other's records would be really good. I would love to see nevermore cover 'harvester of sorrow' or '...and justice for all'.

 

[jimbobhickville]

Thanks for your opinions; you don't have to get defensive. I never said Megadeth didn't sell out, I said they took longer to do it. I enjoy parts of all of their albums, except Risk, that one sucked completely. So, because the suckiness was more gradual, it didn't have the same impact. That was all I said.

I'm happy you like the black album, but I can't stand it. I waited for it for almost 3 years, and I was completely let down. I even listened to it over and over, hoping it would grow on me, but it never did. Maybe Megadeth wasn't as much of a letdown for me because I wasn't as huge of a Megadeth fan as I was of Metallica.

Apparently this is a very personal issue for you (thus the defensive tone of your posts), so I will quit talking about it. I'll never understand why you feel such a need to defend a washed-up band, but again, that is your opinion and I can't fault you for that.

 

[spawn]

Originally posted by jimbobhickville
Thanks for your opinions; you don't have to get defensive. I never said Megadeth didn't sell out, I said they took longer to do it. I enjoy parts of all of their albums, except Risk, that one sucked completely. So, because the suckiness was more gradual, it didn't have the same impact. That was all I said.

I'm happy you like the black album, but I can't stand it. I waited for it for almost 3 years, and I was completely let down. I even listened to it over and over, hoping it would grow on me, but it never did. Maybe Megadeth wasn't as much of a letdown for me because I wasn't as huge of a Megadeth fan as I was of Metallica.

Apparently this is a very personal issue for you (thus the defensive tone of your posts), so I will quit talking about it. I'll never understand why you feel such a need to defend a washed-up band, but again, that is your opinion and I can't fault you for that.

That "suckiness was more gradual" bit cracked me up

Yep I love the black album, but im not really the huge metallica fan you think I am its just that the whole "sellout" debate gets on my nerves sometimes when its used to label bands that didnt do it
Though I CAN understand you when you say that it was a huge letdown, because I didnt even listen to metallica until about 5 years ago, so it didnt bother me that they changed so much as the black album was the first metallica album I heard. Im sure I would have had the shits too had they gone from extremely technical progressiveish metal to hard rock and I waited 3 years for it. Obviously when I heard the older stuff it was even better, but I still like the black album.

Anyway, we are just gonna go round in circles with this, so lets go put on some iced earth and shout everyone a beer Ok, karaokes on, who wants to do "next in line" with me?

 

[metallica sucks cock]

who said nevermore sold out?????? it wasnt me. if you wanna know sellout, go to www.metallica.com