Toms and the hell that is mixing them!

[-Gavin-]

Right, so as posted in "rate my mix", i'äm fairly happy with my abilities to mix a snare, kick, cymbals and general kit as a whole....

However, Toms.


I suck at toms.

Where do you start?

Mine are either wayyy too boomy or wayy to thin. I can't get distinct powerful tom sounds that cut through!

Any advice?

 

[chadsxe]

I cut a lot of mids, boost a lot high and compress them a lot like a snare. It really depends on the source though.

 

[Jackal_Strain]

I find toms to be the most difficult too. I end up doing things completely different from project to project when it comes to toms. Unlike kicks and snare where it's much easier to throw on a preset and tweak from there.
It comes down to the quality of the toms, the tuning, how they're played and how good they're tracked etc.

 

[musickey]

Right, so as posted in "rate my mix", i'äm fairly happy with my abilities to mix a snare, kick, cymbals and general kit as a whole....

However, Toms.


I suck at toms.

Where do you start?

Mine are either wayyy too boomy or wayy to thin. I can't get distinct powerful tom sounds that cut through!

Any advice?

Dont know if this helps but im currently mixing drums in Nuendo and i have found that if i individualy EQ and compress each tom and then send a good amount of each tom to an f/x buss with waves ssl channel inserted on that bus that im able to eq and gate the toms to remove alot of blead. and it alows me to bring up just the toms, level wise were i want them in the mix. and i have also tried creating a tom group channel and grouping all the toms within that group, but i ended up liking the f/x buss approuch alot better. if anyone has any other methods please respond.

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

I have trouble with toms all the time. I actually always fuck them up when I compress them. Somehow it ruins the levels and the tone of the drum, I always end up taking it off or making it very light. My best tom sound yet has been blending samples with programmed drums and just EQ.

 

[Ermz]

I frequently end up using pretty drastic processing, even when toms are tracked well. The usual is a cut anywhere from 500 down to 250Hz, depending on the size and sound of the tom. A high shelf, at around 1.4kHz, a boost anywhere from 8 to 10k for air. Then a low shelf set depending on the pitch of the drum.

Compression as needed. Depends on how consistent the player is with hits more than anything, and how hard he hits... as you may need to use compression to bring out the attack, unless you favor transient designer software.

 

[wishtheend]

I usually solo just the toms, and then apply something like the SSL EQ. Tweak it for a big bottom end, scooped mids to taste, and then boost some highs. Just get it so it sounds just big and full on it's own. I'll usually actually boost the lows until I'm getting a good amount of meat in there (especially for the floor). I will usually do a quick pan just to get the stereo spread. Unsolo the toms so you are listening to the whole kit - and put on a compressor and then followed by a surgical EQ like Q10 or something. While listening with the rest of the kit, compress to taste and then use the surgical EQ to HP the lows (40-75hz), and notch out bad spots.

I tend to have a buss with a plate reverb (100% wet) on there that has an EQ after it thats HP at about 100-150hz and then buss the toms to this for the desired reverb amount (usually like 10%). I always cut out a lot of lows on the verb since it would muddy it up. The thing I find is that what sounds good in levels for toms is usually too high once the guitars are brought up. This just gets me in a good spot where I just have to do some panning and volume to get it to sit right.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Be careful with bleed into the kick & snare mics. A lot of mud can build up on these. Automated mutes/edits can help... that is, if you're using natural kick & snare. Also, try setting up 2 identical reverbs, 1 for the snare, & one for the toms. HP the snare send at 100hz, and HP the tom send at 600 hz. That should clean things up a bit.

FWIW, the best tom sound I ever got came from a drummer who knew how to hit.... He had the "touch" as it were. A few other guys have come close, but for drummers who haven't got the finesse, it doesn't matter how much you process (outside of replacing the sound), it won't do much good. Remember to coach them to "Paint circles" and "crack the whip."


-0z-

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Gate some of the ring in the toms. Gets rid of some of that boomy shit.

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

Be careful with bleed into the kick & snare mics. A lot of mud can build up on these. Automated mutes/edits can help... that is, if you're using natural kick & snare. Also, try setting up 2 identical reverbs, 1 for the snare, & one for the toms. HP the snare send at 100hz, and HP the tom send at 600 hz. That should clean things up a bit.

FWIW, the best tom sound I ever got came from a drummer who knew how to hit.... He had the "touch" as it were. A few other guys have come close, but for drummers who haven't got the finesse, it doesn't matter how much you process (outside of replacing the sound), it won't do much good. Remember to coach them to "Paint circles" and "crack the whip."


-0z-

Paint circles?

 

[greyskull]

EDIT THEM
the hours of fun fading themin and out,
but its worth it

 

[-Gavin-]

EDIT THEM
the hours of fun fading themin and out,
but its worth it

I just read theremin....

I actually have one here.

 

[Machinated]

Yeah, it depends on what the tracking is like, but I usually find myself editing them, chopping them all up, taking out the bleed and doing the fades. I also suck all the mids out of them a lot of the time. Compression really depends imo, I'm sure you can judge from the playing, and also a nice reverb helps. You can also play with gates - like one at the start of the mixing chain to control whats coming through, and one at the end to tighten things up. Again this isn't always necessary, depends on what was tracked.

 

[OeufConique]

Hum...strange, I usually have quite a good amount of mids(especially between 1/3khz) in my toms as I tend to boost them and make them THE "mid sounding element" in the drumkit...besides that I almost kill the 300/500hz range in them, and crush them pretty hard too.

 

[elmuchoescadawg]

You can also play with gates - like one at the start of the mixing chain to control whats coming through, and one at the end to tighten things up.

I personally would advise against gating them when your tracking them. Just in case the gate was to tight to let an intended strike through and you end up losing it. IMHO it would be better to gate or strip silence once its recorded so you can go back and tweak these things if needs be.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Paint circles?

Yes. It's a striking technique. I asked a drummer with outstanding studio technique about how he hits, and his reply was, "I paint circles." And then he showed me exactly what he was talking about.

Instead of hitting a tom dead on, and aiming "though" it, he hits the center of a drum from a slight angle. Like this:

\ / <--Right hand, angle of incidence
-----
Drum head

It's a pretty rough diagram, but hopefully it gets the point across. It works wonders on drums & cymbals. If you've got a particularly noisy drummer, this technique will certainly clean things up.

-0z-

 

[Ronnie_Rocker]

i use a BBE maximizer on the tom master buss to get some extra fatness and crisp. eq&#180;d with SSL before sending them to the tom master buss.

 

[MR NINE]

Try to "clean" all the "bleed" from them; eq and pan to taste and send them to a buss with a multiband compressor inserted followed by sony inflator for some analogue similar sound;

 

[-Gavin-]

I actually solved my problem!

It was mostly an unsuitable EQ!


I blindly bought BlueCat StereoparaEQ today for the fact it had a sexy interface and it was cheap!


It boosted EXACTLY what and how i wanted something boosted and has made my toms cut RIGHT THROUGH the mix!

I've even been able to lower the volume of the bus and remove most of the compression!

 

[smy1]

Yes. It's a striking technique. I asked a drummer with outstanding studio technique about how he hits, and his reply was, "I paint circles." And then he showed me exactly what he was talking about.

Instead of hitting a tom dead on, and aiming "though" it, he hits the center of a drum from a slight angle. Like this:

\ / <--Right hand, angle of incidence
-----
Drum head

It's a pretty rough diagram, but hopefully it gets the point across. It works wonders on drums & cymbals. If you've got a particularly noisy drummer, this technique will certainly clean things up.

-0z-

I dont get it ... but I am very intrigued by this. Can you elaborate some more please?