Tone test

ShredHead31

New Metal Member
Aug 11, 2005
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Hey guys, I just joined this forum and I have been doing some recording with my laptop and my PODXT. I used cool edit pro2, my guitar is an mahagony body ESP with dual EMG 81's, I'm using the metalshop, collector classics and FX junkie bundle. I did the tone test track with just one track center. I did the metalcore riffs track with 3 tracks, 1 hard left, 1 hard right and one dead center. I used the Powerball model with the 4x12 green 25's cab and the boost+EQ stomp. IMO I think I have a pretty good recto tone going but I want to get that really tight killswitch engaged type tone as well. Anybody have any pointers, I am also interested in learning on how to use EQ to help my tone, anybody know any good sites? Let me know what you think of the tones and any feedback negative or positive welcome!!!

Heres the clips link, http://www.soundclick.com/metaldude30
 
Too much gain, not enough treble or presence. Also sounds like you're having some problems with the strings being a tad floppy - it sounds like you're using a drop tuning and not compensating for the tension loss, just judging by the pick attack and the harmonic problems in the 'Tone Test' clip. I'd say to try cutting the gain down to about half of that, getting some thicker strings, and whacking the hell out of them, that might help some.

Jeff
 
Criticism is done very well here - that's why people actually get stuff out of this forum, really. Maybe we're just misreading him, I don't know, but don't jump on the guy just yet.

Jeff
 
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I am thankful for the comments that's why I posted here. I really want to improve my tone. Let me tell you my whole set up maybe that will help better. I use cool edit pro2, record direct USB from the XT, I play through powered computer speakers w/subwoofer for home only. I only wondered what the people were listening through when they said the tone sounded crappy is all. I have had several mixed comments like the tone sucks, it's killer, it's too trebly, too muddy and so on, I just want to learn how to fix it, use EQ and so on. I am in no way trying to say my tone is great, I like it so far but I would love to improve it.
 
If he's doing it through the XT I think that's probably one of the best options, unless the 1010LT gnomes have been sneaking around his house replacing onboard audio with shit that they should be giving me instead.

Everyone that I've ever worked with and most people I've talked to wound up using entirely too much gain - that's probably the biggest problem I've seen. I wouldn't use the Powerball, myself, as I usually hear it pretty gain-loaded - perhaps try a 5150 - and I'd try tracking two (or for easier parts, three) times on each side, one at 70-80% and the other at 100% panned. Keep it tight and don't be afraid to cut mids and bass if you're getting a bit of mud from the tracking over and over; you should also try tracking different amps since with the XT you have that option, perhaps even doing two amps on each take just to get a really good blend. I don't know what the Cool Edit stuff has in the way of compression or peak limiting, but if something in that direction is available go for it (and remember to start REALLY low, as if you can hear a compressor you're doing it wrong), and if not see what free stuff you can download until you have the money for some expensive stuff. Have fun, and post some more when you've tried other stuff.

Jeff
 
Actually I only had the gain set at like 12-1:00, is that too much? So doing 1 track 100% left, 100% right and middle is that messing it up? I just recorded once but created 3 total tracks on the one take, is that causing the weirdness? I have no idea how to tweak to the right levels, I just turn knobs till I like what I hear. Where can I learn about using compression, EQ and the other things you listed?
 
What, USB? I wouldn't think it would kill anything, as the Pod is digital anyway.

As for low gain and mixing, you'll lose a lot of clarity and the majority of the 'chunk'/size/heaviness with more gain, so if it sounds lifeless and clinical, drop gain. If it sounds less 'metal' than you'd like, try tracking more. If it gets muddy, drop gain and possibly midrange. The panning is done hard to both sides to leave room for the rest of the instruments. The amp switching will help you 'fill out' the sound - you'll hear people pairing up more high-mid amps, like Marshall, with lower-mid amps, like Mesas, as these will cover each other's weak spots and possibly make your sounds less 'simulator-y'.

Jeff
 
Ok, so I should definately use diff. amps when recording, lower the gain because more tracks will "fatten" up the sound. Blend more, not just hard left, right and center? Don't just go for balls to the wall sound, build up to it? The tone I am going after is KSE, Hatebreed, basically your run of the mill hardcore metal type sound but I also want a tone that you can hear every strummed note, something with clarity but a great punch that's really tight.

Where does the EQ and compression come in at, the mixdown, I have no idea what and where to add stuff.
 
Yeah, it definately sounds like too much gain and bass on that clip, turn them down some. I don't know if I understood you right but if you just copied the same take 3 times and panned them, that is defeating the purpose. You should actually record different takes of you playing the same thing. Maybe try something like this:


1 track Mesa 100% L
1 track 5150 80 L
1 track Mesa 100% R
1 track 5150 80% R


I don't have much expierence using a PodXT so I don't know if it even has those amps or whatever but you get the idea. Each of those tracks would also be a different take so you have 4 takes total. After you have the tracks recorded then comes in EQ and compression and other techniques to make the guitar tracks fit the mix better. EQ-wise I usually end up cutting off stuff below like 70 or so and cutting off everything above like 10k or somewhere around there. I don't compress distorted guitar much but I know other people do with great results. You gotta play around and find out what you like. Check out http://www.ilovemetal.co.uk/ for other stuff to help you when recording. Hope this helps!
 
Not definitely, but know when to use them and when not to. I wouldn't put anything center, that's where some drums, the bass, and the vocals have to live, so for separation put them 70-80% and 100% on each side (or you could do both at 100% but the guitars won't seem as 'wide', if you're doing harmonies or noticeably different parts keep them separated). Try getting the character of the sound, not necessarily the gain you think you'll want to hear, as you'll think you're hearing more gain as you double or triple track. I usually run things through a preset compressor because I'm lazy and I don't know much about EQ myself. Someone else will have stuff to say about the EQ and specific compressor things, I just go by the Sneap C4 settings (which I've lightened up on and extended to a lower range, but otherwise know nothing about) and Slipperman's EQ chart (do a Google or a forum search).

Kev, they're like the underpants gnomes, but even more confused - they carry around 1010LTs and put them in the homes of randomly chosen people for little or no apparent reason, not having discovered the magical 2nd step between useless nonsense and profit. I guess if it needs explaining it's lost - I was simply assuming that a guy using Cool Edit and a Pod wouldn't be using that if he had spent much time with the fancy pro gear so I doubted that he'd do better than USB. Oh well.

ADDED: Hex made some good points, but with the EQ cutting off low end try not to cut off the fundamental of the lowest note on your guitar - I personally wouldn't cut below 50 because I have a 7 string tuned to Bb and I want to keep that fundamental, but generally there isn't much but noise and bandwidth hogging below that or in the extreme high ends. Google the frequency of the note you tune to (as in "frequency C#") and figure out what it should be (keep in mind that lowering by an octave is equivalent to halving the frequency; you're used to tuning to an A440 but the A string on your guitar, tuned two octaves lower, is actually 110Hz, so if all you find is above, say, 150Hz, cut it in half and then try cutting things a few Hz below that). Granted, even if you cut the fundamentals all the harmonics will be there, so you'll still know it's lower, but for guitar you're not going to kill any sound equipment keeping all of your range intact (9-string bass, on the other hand...). Mesa (Dual Rec, typically) and 5150 is one of those 'perfect match' setups that's used all over the place; Mesa and Krank is also growing more common. Again, use different takes, not the same track over and over on both sides (on one side do at least two tracks unless you can't play tight enough), otherwise you're defeating the purpose.

Jeff
 
Ok, I'll give it a shot. Hex, that's exactly what I did was do 1 take and copied it, so that's a no no huh? I guess I'll need to do some more practicing before my next session so I can get the timing and everything else down before I dive into it. Man, this is a whole lot more complicated than I figured, hehehee!! What's the sneap c4 settings, is it something I can dial in on my XT or in the recording program? Yeah I'm a broke sum beyotch so I just got what I could and jumped in head first. I'm mainly a rhythm player so I don't think I'll be doing harmonies and leads at all. I tune to Eflat or drop Dflat and use EB skinny top heavy bottom strings, but my guitar has that damn earvana nut on it and won't take the gauge I want so I settled for those.