Toronto Show: A different opinion

Satori

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May 2, 2001
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Great show, Opeth were in fine form, tight and charismatic and definitely in the mood to play, they are a class act all the way.

However, I was quite disappointed. Not with Opeth at all, with the sound.

Seriously, I think some "sound guys" would be better replaced by a stoned chimp with a glow in the dark butt-plug. Maybe not in this case.. but overall. And I don't think I'm just overly anal, though perhaps I've come to expect more than some people.

The sound was incredibly muddy and boomy, and I feel I've been to enough concerts to be confident in what I'm saying here. To simulate this sound, if you have a descent stereo with an EQ or just imagine what I'm saying, put on some big headphones and crank it up real loud, or turn up your speakers really loud so that they are being pushed/peaked a little, then turn up the mid-bass frequencies on the EQ all the way up. Doesn't that sound like shit? Now imagine about 3 times as muddy, that's how the show sounded.

I tried moving around to different areas and everything, though I didn't try the balcony, maybe I should have, there were just so many people it was hard to move. Anyway, no matter where I went on the floor it sound dirty and muddy, and I think there was no need for that. I think Opeth deserve better than that bullshit.

It was so bad that there were times when I couldn't even hear stuff they were doing. Like, if there was a guitar run and a drum roll at the same time (like in Deliverance for example) then there was just too many conflicting overtones, nothing sounded clear or separated, it was just a big fucking pile of horrible noise.

I feel that with the exception of the clear tone mellow parts (which were ok, still muddy though), the entire show was spoiled by the bassy mud. Even Mike's voice wasn't immune to the muddiness. Instead of sounding clear, organic, expansive, and dynamic with his growls, like he truly does live, just like on the album, it sounded all mid-range'ish and compressed. Mikael does NOT sound like that.

Martin's snare drum was often non-existant, lost in the mud. Whenever Martin laid on with the double kicks it created so much mud that it just sound like a pile of crappy rumbling.

What the hell is wrong with the fucks who do the sound checks and set the levels? Could they be that stupid? Hmm.. I don't see why not.

Pardise Lost's set was muddy as hell too, but nowhere nearly as muddy as Opeth's. What a mess.

Anyway, don't mean to blame the sound guy (that's a lie, hehe), I know there could've been other reasons, like maybe the equipment sucked and that was the best they could do, or maybe they've all gone deaf and it's not their fault. I think it's more likely though that the sound guy is a few shots short of a load.

It's not the venue. It's not like they were playing in a mostly empty school gym, which is hopeless. I've seen lots of other bands play there, and they ALL sounded amazing, clear, clean, no mud. So I don't think there's any excuse.

I feel sorry for all you guys that didn't have the chance to see Opeth during their last show in Toronto before this one. It was much much much better. The sound was absolutely perfect and you could actually hear what they were doing it. It kind of pisses me off cuz I feel that many of you will walk away from this show thinking that it was a fair representation of what Opeth sounds like live. Let me tell you seriously, it's not. The really good show that they played at the Reverb last year was much cleaner, like CD quality even (I'm serious). Opeth are capable of sounding every bit as amazing as they do on the CD's, seriously.

Anyway, I don't want to be a downer, just being honest and saying something I feel needed to be said. I think Opeth are the greatest and I think they put on an incredible show last night to that huge (about 900+?) crowd or adoring fans. I really like how much love and respect the fans showed the band and how Mikael and the guys were so appreciative and genuinely affected by it. With so many people showing that much fanaticism, you'd have to be made of stone to not feel it, hehe.

I think Opeth deserve better equipment and/or a better sound man.

Satori
 
Oh yea, this was kinda funny..

Did anyone see those 2 chicks who were sucking face as hard and as passionately as they could for like 2 hours or something (no shit), during nearly all of PL's and Opeth's sets? Don't get me wrong, I'm just as much a fan of bi-curious or full on lesbo* exibitionism as everyone else, but even a fucking pervert such as myself has some standards for what's good girl-girl public action, and that wasn't it. hahah

Anyway, the reason it didn't seem all that intriguing to me (and usually I find that sort of stuff quite cool) was because it seemed like a ploy for attention (which I'm sure was what it was).

Anyway, if one of you 2 girls are reading this (and you know I'm not talking about 2 other girls, hehe), then I'm sorry for being a snot and suggesting that your over-the-top exibitionism seemed childish and ridiculous, but I'm not the only one who thought so. You created quite a scene and amused a lot of people. If it turns you on to make out in public then you are certainly entitled to have fun doing so, I just think you should be aware that you were being laughed at because you just seemed so desparate for attention (and I don't think that's the kind of attention you wanted).

If you were incredibly stoned on ecstacy or something then I retract the intensity with which I said all of this, it still applies, just not as much I think.

Anyway, have fun.. ;)

Satori

* of the non-butch variety, of course
 
I've been to very few shows in comparison with many of the people here, and many who were at the show last night, I'm sure.


The double-kicks did kill most of the other instruments - but I had no problem hearing the soloing.

..I don't usually regret things.. not taking the hit and flying to TO to see Opeth for their last show was pretty damn idiotic. But I'm sure I'll see them again (soon!), maybe at a very different venue.

Good review, Satori! Too bad we missed each other at the show. Did you see any other UMmers?
 
Nah man, I didn't see anyone, there were just too many people there, holy shit!

My ears are still hurting from all the bass.

Oh yea, I titled this thread "a different opinion" before I saw the other thread saying pretty much the same thing. My apologies. My opinion wasn't so different after all, hehe.

Satori
 
My thoughts exactly on the sound techs (even though I obviously wasn't at the show).

More times than not, Opeth's sound is completely horrible.. and I have a boot of them playing at Fou Founes in 2001 where there is a goddamn thunder of distortion and crap coming from the speakers... the band were all like 'wtf' and mikael had to slow down the solo to give the techs time to fix it... after that the thing was fixed, but the levels were still fucked. The whole show had an annoying kind of hiss to it and the sound was not clear at all.. all mud.

I'm just really starting to wonder about the people that do Opeth's sound.
 
Originally posted by Moonlapse
I'm just really starting to wonder about the people that do Opeth's sound.

Interesting you would say that.

The first time I saw them play it sucked. Mike's guitar wasn't audible for most of the show, and when you could hear it you could just barely make it out.

After the 2ond time I saw Opeth play (and they sounded beyond superb that time) I was at what you could call an underground hippy rave on new year's eve, and I noticed the guy doing the sound was wearing a BWP t-shirt. So I talked to the guy and he was Opeth's sound technician for the 2ond part of last year's North American tour, for the show that sounded *amazing*.

I talked to him a lot. He's a really really smart guy. He's even educated in that stuff, he was telling me which frequencies cause mud and how to work around the problem in different situations, and how much volume you should use for a given area, there are certain frequencies that ressonate the ear drum to much and make everything sound like shit, etc. He knows a lot of great stuff. The sound he was putting out that night was also fucking fantastic, and it wasn't even that loud (for a rave), but it was plenty loud enough.

I'm absolutely SURE that this guy wasn't the guy who was doing the sound last night.

I really don't know what the big deal is, it's not fucking rocket science. Doesn't everyone with a stereo with an EQ (or even bass and treble controls) know that as you increase the volume you have to decrease the bass, and particularly the mid-bass? Damn, my older brother taught me that when I was like 12, how professional sound guys could be unaware of this fact is beyond me.

The solution: castration (surgical or chemical, doesn't matter).

Satori
 
I suppose it gets alot more complicated than that when alot of instruments and frequenices are in question. I mean to get the volume and levels on just about everything right, for every venue is pretty hard... so I'd say it's excusable ocassionally, but seriously, more often than not in Opeth's case the sound is terribly shit and I just wonder.

So it seems that in some shows the sound isn't very professional at all, so I hope that guy you talked to comes back and sticks with Opeth... hopefully in time for the Australian tour! haha.
 
yeah ya know i happen to know a pretty good amount about mixing and sound...and i hear far better sound in the local detroit rock scene than i do with Opeth...theyre an extremely high class band...and therefore deserve a high class recording engineer, period.
 
good review Satori. that's such a shame such a great band gets screwed over by the sound at a show...
Moonlapse i am with you, Opeth had better have a good sound guy by the time the get to australia :S
 
Everyone needs to remember, that the acoustics of the venue have a lot to do with the sounds at a concert. If a good band gets stuck in a bad hall, things aren't going to sound as clear as an opera hall. And we all know that rock and metal shows can be put on in some really odd places.

Also, sometimes the band is using the sound system that the venue owns or rents, and that also has a LOT to do with sound quality.
 
Holy shit Satori, you were at the Toronto show? I wish I knew so I could've talked with you IRL.. I was all the way up there from Colorado.. it was an excellent show IMO. I saw them in Philadelphia though, and they sounded much better there.

The only thing that phased me was at the end when this insanely drunk guy was walking around the front of the pit feeling everyone up.. guys and girls. It drove me absolutely nuts, and I dont think I was the only one. Everyone around me wanted to sock the guy.
 
Hey huevo, small world.

I remember talking to you for like an hour in the line in front of the bus. I was the dude with the glasses and the brown coat.

How did you manage on the 15-hour drive with no music?
 
Did anyone see those two guys who almost got into a fight during Credence?

Of all the fucking songs to fight to, they start during Credence. Weird.

I think they were totally wasted though.
 
Originally posted by artellis
Everyone needs to remember, that the acoustics of the venue have a lot to do with the sounds at a concert. If a good band gets stuck in a bad hall, things aren't going to sound as clear as an opera hall. And we all know that rock and metal shows can be put on in some really odd places.

Also, sometimes the band is using the sound system that the venue owns or rents, and that also has a LOT to do with sound quality.

Yea man.

I just wanted to point out that the venue in Toronto has excellent acoustics (I've seen lots of concerts there), so in this case it was entirely the fault of the sound guys, or maybe the quality of the sound system itself (which I find less likely).

Satori
 
Originally posted by huevo
Holy shit Satori, you were at the Toronto show? I wish I knew so I could've talked with you IRL.. I was all the way up there from Colorado.. it was an excellent show IMO. I saw them in Philadelphia though, and they sounded much better there.

If you ever come back up here let me know ahead of time...

The only thing that phased me was at the end when this insanely drunk guy was walking around the front of the pit feeling everyone up.. guys and girls. It drove me absolutely nuts, and I dont think I was the only one. Everyone around me wanted to sock the guy.

Hehehe, I saw the guy but I didn't know he was doing that.. tsk tsk, some people's kids. What a fucking goon! hahah

Satori