Tracking with and without a click

[HSL]

I'm curious as to how some of you go about this. From what I can tell, I've enjoyed the human aspect of albums that were tracked 'live' over others that were tracked to a click. Usually it's scratch tracks with the drummer, guitarist and bassist, and then the rest of everything is tracked using the drums as the official click.

To me, this seems like it would pose the problem of not being able to quad track as well since the drums are breathing time-wise a little more. You'd have to be in the 'zone' with the tracks to make multiple tracks perfect. Then again, Cannibal Corpse seemed to pull this off numerous times. They're apparently and extremely tight band.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[greyskull]

the band need to be REALLY
REALLY tight to pull off no click.
I mean signed artist/being on tour for 2 years straight tight.
otherwise click it out or get out.

 

[HSL]

That's what I was thinking, hence the mention of Cannibal Corpse. As far as I know, their last album or two were really the only ones they tracked to a click with.

 

[Harry Hughes]

Just use a click.
The human element doesn't have to go away because you use a click.
If we're talking modern metal, it will sound better if it's as tight as possible, because that allows the rhythm section to just totally lock in and crush skulls as best as possible.

 

[drew_drummer]

The human element remains even when you use a click, trust me. Our drummer is fucking tight, definitely one of the best drummers I've ever met. But when he records to a click, if I go through and tie the grid to his performance, there will still be minute variations all the way through - and it sounds great!

Record to a click. The tie the grid down to the performance if it sounds tight. If it doesn't sound tight, slip edit it to the grid - or do a combination of both.

 

[amarshism]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you feel your click is removing the 'human' element, spend more time in preproduction with your drummer and program a better click.

 

[waltz mastering]

I find that bands that tour and play live on the regular are the bands that tend to play live in the studio more effortlessly, lock in and capture a feel and don't need to rely on a click so much. There's a lot of pros and cons working with or without a click. Depends on the drummer, band, head phone mix, production, alignment of planets etc.

 

[beyond dead]

I wouldnt attempt to use swing in my music unless I had a click as a reference. there is a difference between "swing" and being off time. "swing" is intentionally veering in and out of time, in a controlled manner, for effect.

there are those who have such an impeccable sense of timing, but it is gained through years of jamming to a click.

the root of the problem that bands have with clicks (whether they realize it or not) is that they aren`t willing to put proper time into properly producing their music. Most of the guys I have recorded who refused to use clicks are the type of guys who think they are better at producing music than someone who produces music for a living :s

if the drummer has never recorded to a click, then you can try several other things.

1) try getting the guitarists to record guide tracks to the click. Its much easier to play guitar to a lone click track, and guitarists usually have decent timing. make sure that the drummer and singer are present so that the guitarist doesnt leave out sections of the song (it happens alot)

2) program simple drums and record a rough preprod of the song to that. It will make the final production much tighter because all of the harmonies/ layers will be planned out, and the performance on the final production will be less hesitated. sometimes I find that you can hear musicians hesitation when their performances are played back. recording at least a rough preprod of the song helps the musicians nail down their parts, and get an idea of how the song will sound recorded which will vary much from the way it sounds in the rehearsal room.