Triton Power Cruise Cancelled

[Harvester]

Zeke posted the press release in the other cruise thread:

Looks like Triton has been canceled...

http://www.bravewords.com/news/133276


Quote:
Posted on Friday, February 26, 2010 at 10:05:05 EST

Organizers of the Triton Power Cruise - which was set to sail on the Carnival Imagination on April 30th - May 3rd from Miami, Florida - has been cancelled.

Organizers have issued the following statement:

"Due to an extreme medical crisis within the promoter’s family it is with a heavy soul we report the cancellation of the Triton Power Cruise. This cancellation does not represent a failure on behalf of any individual, band, sponsor, ticket sales, or the cruise line. Any speculation otherwise would be categorically erroneous. All tickets purchased may be honored to cruise on the Carnival Imagination without the event and a partial refund will be credited to those exercising this option. Purchasers who would prefer a full refund will receive 100% of their purchase paid."

Triton Power Cruise was scheduled to feature the following acts: CIRCLE II CIRCLE, CRIMSON GLORY, THE ELEMENT, EUMERIA, EVERGREY, FUTURES END, JON OLIVA'S PAIN, PAGAN'S MIND, SEVEN WITCHES, SHADOW GALLERY.

The Triton Power Cruise website can be found at www.tritonpowercruise.com.


******

Beth has posted her own note over at her forum as well.

 

[Savage Pumpkin]

Sorry to hear that. Hope all is well in the promoters family. My prayers are with you.

 

[nomisofsiman]

This sucks. I know a number of people were really looking forward to this. While I wish this guy's family the best, I'm surprised they didn't at least try to find someone to help him out in these hard times.

 

[mëtålspëd]

This sucks. I know a number of people were really looking forward to this. While I wish this guy's family the best, I'm surprised they didn't at least try to find someone to help him out in these hard times.

It is actually a hard working woman...

 

[nomisofsiman]

It is actually a hard working woman...

Oops. Sorry 'bout that and I mean no disrespect to this woman by saying if there was someone else she knew that could help her at this time btw. It just seems like there was a lot riding on this (no pun intended).

 

[rjrousseau]

Hate to hear this. I hope everything turns out well for Beth and her family.

 

[compurocker]

That's very unfortunate. If I could have managed to go, I would have, but it just wasn't in the cards for me.

So... looks like Shadow Gallery needs a new "first show" .... PPUSAXI Showcase?

 

[Jasonic]

Sorry to hear about this. I hope all is well for Beth and her family.
I got a chance to meet her in Chicago last year, and I know she works her butt off promoting this thing.

 

[shreddy]

Beth our prayers go out to you and your family.

 

[mloanna]

Wow, very sad. My prayers are with her. Family does come first. It is good though that the cruise will refund 100% but with a late cancellation, what happens to bands like Evergrey who have visas and then plane fare issues?

 

[Cheiron]

Wow, very sad. My prayers are with her. Family does come first. It is good though that the cruise will refund 100% but with a late cancellation, what happens to bands like Evergrey who have visas and then plane fare issues?

If you are a band planning a tour and you don't have cancellation insurance then you aren't being diligent, or your management/label isn't doing their job. So they should get a full return minus the insurance, which isn't a whole lot. As for Visa costs, I don't think you have to apply for every tour. But I might be wrong on this. Unfortunately, it might be hard for some bands to now fill up this part of their schedule.

But this sucks for the promoter, bands, and fans.

 

[Kong]

I talked to Beth in great length yesterday and she did everything
she could to bring in the necessary people to fill her massive shoes.
Unfortunately no one would or could fill those shoes and thus having
no other option but to cancel...Family does indeed come first.

From what I was told, none of the bands had purchased flights yet.

Were bumbed that it is cancelled, but I will probably go just to have fun.
Carnival cruises are a blast for party people!

 

[MetalVixen]

Very sorry to hear this. Hope everything works out.

 

[Frode]

If you are a band planning a tour and you don't have cancellation insurance then you aren't being diligent, or your management/label isn't doing their job. So they should get a full return minus the insurance, which isn't a whole lot. As for Visa costs, I don't think you have to apply for every tour. But I might be wrong on this. Unfortunately, it might be hard for some bands to now fill up this part of their schedule.

But this sucks for the promoter, bands, and fans.

I manage one of the bands from overseas. We had tickets booked for three band members so far, plus tickets for their wives and girlfriends. (All together 6 tickets).
Because the promoter was going to pay for the flight tix for the band members, I made sure that the tickets were bought when the price was good; meaning I was working "in good faith", to use a contractual expression, with the promoter to minimize her costs.
If you as a band manager don't work with promoters this way - who's gonna want you in the end?
Where I come from, as a private person, you have a travel insurance, you have your car, kids and house insured, you might even have a life insurance so your teenage kids can hope that you die soon, while no medical insurance usually is needed, but that's basically it. Maybe you can buy insurance for specific events/tours whatever (over here it's not the usual way to go), but in the end, it would come off the promoter's budget. Which promoter would want to work with you in the end? How many gigs/tours would you get? Then, what kind of job would the manager be doing?
Some bands can ask for a lot, while others are not in the position to do so. If I tell you that I manage a band that hasn't headlined ProgPower USA yet, do you think the band I manage ever will if I, as a manager, ask for promoters to buy more expensive and "rebookable" flight tickets or if I ask the promoter to cover extra insurance? I don't think so. But of course, you are welcome to explain how I am not doing my job.

 

[Evil]

Beth our prayers go out to you and your family.

amen dude...amen

 

[Cheiron]

I manage one of the bands from overseas. We had tickets booked for three band members so far, plus tickets for their wives and girlfriends. (All together 6 tickets).
Because the promoter was going to pay for the flight tix for the band members, I made sure that the tickets were bought when the price was good; meaning I was working "in good faith", to use a contractual expression, with the promoter to minimize her costs.
If you as a band manager don't work with promoters this way - who's gonna want you in the end?
Where I come from, as a private person, you have a travel insurance, you have your car, kids and house insured, you might even have a life insurance so your teenage kids can hope that you die soon, while no medical insurance usually is needed, but that's basically it. Maybe you can buy insurance for specific events/tours whatever (over here it's not the usual way to go), but in the end, it would come off the promoter's budget. Which promoter would want to work with you in the end? How many gigs/tours would you get? Then, what kind of job would the manager be doing?
Some bands can ask for a lot, while others are not in the position to do so. If I tell you that I manage a band that hasn't headlined ProgPower USA yet, do you think the band I manage ever will if I, as a manager, ask for promoters to buy more expensive and "rebookable" flight tickets or if I ask the promoter to cover extra insurance? I don't think so. But of course, you are welcome to explain how I am not doing my job.

If you lost your band a significant amount of money, then absolutely you are not doing your job. Some credit cards offer trip insurance as a part of it, so if you have one of those, that's one way to do it. If you are purchasing tickets, and the promoter will pay you back for the ticket purchases (up to some amount or another), then you should swallow the trip insurance (unless they say they will). Its not expensive at all. I wouldn't get rebookable flight tickets, because those are very expensive. But I would get cancellation insurance.

Unless you are a huge band, I wouldn't get insurance on touring, and most insurance companies probably won't work with you unless you are a major band. So if while on tour a show is cancelled due to the promoter's actions, then hopefully you have something in contract (a guarantee that is paid unless the band fails to show). Venues have these with promoters, so bands should have them with promoters.

If you are asking who then would want to promote, certainly not people with a pure fan standpoint. Not the guys who want to promote shows so that they can hang with bands. The best promoters are those who understand that its a business, -and- love what they are doing.

So you are a small band, doing a small tour. What then? Likely, no promoter. Likely you are working directly with the venue's booking person. You are pretty much screwed in terms of cancellation fees, as you have few venue choices, and he has lots of band choices, and he knows it. But then this is another business risk and you have to plan around it.

Some small bands make money on tours, some lose. Some big bands make money, some lose. Its all about business planning and execution. Unfortunately, to many bands either aren't willing to take the time to recognize that they are a product, mostly a commodity, and they have to promote and manage themselves in order to have a successful business. Too many managers and management companies don't understand this either. 'Its just music man! Its art!'

Some bands, just like some businesses, will have to plan for inital losses in order to get long term gains. But whether they do this or not has to be done with a full understanding of the risk. Too many management and promoters like to sell the dream and mislead the bands for personal glory or profit.

So back to what I said at first, if you lost your band a significant amount of money then you failed to do your job. If you personally lost this money, full well knowing that in the long term, losses like this will occur but your balance sheets at the end of the year will be in the green, then you might be doing your job right (especially if you, based on data, knew that buying flight cancellation insurance had negative value).

 

[Harvester]

Venues have these with promoters, so bands should have them with promoters.

A lot of what you are saying is idealistic, not realistic. I speak from experience as a promoter, a co-booking agent, and a managerial consultant.

We could debate this all day long, but I will go ahead and thrown in the towel. You win. I'd rather argue with...

 

[Frode]

If you lost your band a significant amount of money, then absolutely you are not doing your job. Some credit cards offer trip insurance as a part of it, so if you have one of those, that's one way to do it. If you are purchasing tickets, and the promoter will pay you back for the ticket purchases (up to some amount or another), then you should swallow the trip insurance (unless they say they will). Its not expensive at all. I wouldn't get rebookable flight tickets, because those are very expensive. But I would get cancellation insurance.

Unless you are a huge band, I wouldn't get insurance on touring, and most insurance companies probably won't work with you unless you are a major band. So if while on tour a show is cancelled due to the promoter's actions, then hopefully you have something in contract (a guarantee that is paid unless the band fails to show). Venues have these with promoters, so bands should have them with promoters.

If you are asking who then would want to promote, certainly not people with a pure fan standpoint. Not the guys who want to promote shows so that they can hang with bands. The best promoters are those who understand that its a business, -and- love what they are doing.

So you are a small band, doing a small tour. What then? Likely, no promoter. Likely you are working directly with the venue's booking person. You are pretty much screwed in terms of cancellation fees, as you have few venue choices, and he has lots of band choices, and he knows it. But then this is another business risk and you have to plan around it.

Some small bands make money on tours, some lose. Some big bands make money, some lose. Its all about business planning and execution. Unfortunately, to many bands either aren't willing to take the time to recognize that they are a product, mostly a commodity, and they have to promote and manage themselves in order to have a successful business. Too many managers and management companies don't understand this either. 'Its just music man! Its art!'

Some bands, just like some businesses, will have to plan for inital losses in order to get long term gains. But whether they do this or not has to be done with a full understanding of the risk. Too many management and promoters like to sell the dream and mislead the bands for personal glory or profit.

So back to what I said at first, if you lost your band a significant amount of money then you failed to do your job. If you personally lost this money, full well knowing that in the long term, losses like this will occur but your balance sheets at the end of the year will be in the green, then you might be doing your job right (especially if you, based on data, knew that buying flight cancellation insurance had negative value).

We all have travel insurance, valid for one year on very general terms . Now, I don't know what is "normal" in the US, but here you can not get money back for flight tickets because a show on a cruise boat is cancelled.
The flights are operating, the boat is cruising... To get the money back, you'd need to see a doctor and convince him/her that you are too sick to travel. Calling your insurance or credit card company and tell them the show is cancelled, will not work.
We might see things differently because you can buy different insurances in your part of the world though.

It's very easy for you to draw idealistic conclusions, while reality could be a little different, and your black/white conclusion about "managers not doing their job" annoys me quite a bit. (I know very well what I am doing for the band, and how their status has grown in that period...)
It's not about us losing money or not; it's about intentions and how you cooperate with promoters, and how successful such cooperations are and if you can work together again or not. Sure, if you manage Metallica, you can buy business class tickets and change your itinerary whenever you want to, even cancel at no costs, and even disrespect and yell at the local promoters because the blue M&Ms are not separated from the green ones, because you know they want you back anyway, but our world is a little different. In managing a band at this level, it's even more important to please the people who want to work with the band, than pleasing the band members, and that's why you don't make promoters eat a lot of extra charges when you know that their budget is tight. If you don't present the cheapest alternative, you might as well stay home.

But if you still insist I am bad manager because we might lose some cash (unless we find a good solution go on vacation after all), feel free to think so. Next time I am not quite sure what to do, I'll let you know

 

[Guile]

Wish all the best Beth, hope things get good for you asap!

 

[Cheiron]

A lot of what you are saying is idealistic, not realistic. I speak from experience as a promoter, a co-booking agent, and a managerial consultant.

We could debate this all day long, but I will go ahead and thrown in the towel. You win. I'd rather argue with...

I'm not trying to win. I aim for idealism in most things, and then flex for realism. But a starting point is nice.

Frode I don't even know your situation. I'm just saying that part of a management job is to protect its client and minimize any losses from events such as this. But you are right about travel insurance.