Uhhh, expansion?

[BrandonS]

Hey. I use adobe audition 1.5.

It has the option to "Pan/Expand" as one of the effects.

I usually set the guitars to 300 (which is the max)

The strings to about 200,

Piano 150, and church organ possibly 250...

Now I have two questions. (1) Is expanding a common thing that you professionals usually do or is it just something in audition? and (2) What is the proper way to expand if that is the right thing to do? I find that expanding the guitars to 300 and lowering their volume still makes them pretty strong and sort of out in the front a bit. It's like 100 is normal, and that stuff is kind of flat, but the more it gets expanded the more it kind of lifts higher above the mix or something. It's hard for me to explain, but yeah... let me know, guys!

Thanks!

 

[fabz]

Hey. I use adobe audition 1.5.

It has the option to "Pan/Expand" as one of the effects.

I usually set the guitars to 300 (which is the max)

The strings to about 200,

Piano 150, and church organ possibly 250...

Now I have two questions. (1) Is expanding a common thing that you professionals usually do or is it just something in audition? and (2) What is the proper way to expand if that is the right thing to do? I find that expanding the guitars to 300 and lowering their volume still makes them pretty strong and sort of out in the front a bit. It's like 100 is normal, and that stuff is kind of flat, but the more it gets expanded the more it kind of lifts higher above the mix or something. It's hard for me to explain, but yeah... let me know, guys!

Thanks!

Don't wann sound like an ass or something but this might be a good place to start: http://www.martyfireball.f2s.com/DOD/getrecording.htm

And maybe you should do a google search on your topic and read this forum from the very beginning... It helps you getting better with the recording stuff!

BTW: Panning is indeed a common thing !
Andy records 4 Tracks 2 of the 100% left / right and another 2 70-80% left/right. Sometimes just 2 Tracks Panned between 70-90% i guess? (Not sure on that one)

 

[BrandonS]

Don't wann sound like an ass or something but this might be a good place to start: http://www.martyfireball.f2s.com/DOD/getrecording.htm

And maybe you should do a google search on your topic and read this forum from the very beginning... It helps you getting better with the recording stuff!

BTW: Panning is indeed a common thing !
Andy records 4 Tracks 2 of the 100% left / right and another 2 70-80% left/right. Sometimes just 2 Tracks Panned between 70-90% i guess? (Not sure on that one)

Hmm ok, I'll check out that link. The L/R splitting thing sounds interesting, I've been doing rhythms split 100% left and right, and rhythm "leads" (where each side is different) split at 20% left and right. Trying to get that even sound. x_x The 20% split rhythms sound in the same area as the main 100% split rhythm, and I try to match the volumes by lowering the 20% split ones by 1.0 or more in volume. I know it's probably wrong. x_x You say, record the rhythm twice, and split 2 tracks left and 2 right? Sounds like it would make a thicker sound maybe but have more blatant flaws sticking out into the open?

By the way, HAPPY FREAKING BIRTHDAY, Mr. Sneap!

And what's the deal with the expansion thing?

 

[Kazrog]

From Adobe's website:

Stereo expansion (optional)

Many engineers use expansion in the mixdown process (for example, background vocals may be mixed with some stereo reverb, the drums may have some type of presence/ambience effect, electric guitars may bounce left to right). This effect can create a wash of stereo sound leaving you with no center, so use expansion with caution.

If you simply want to widen a narrow stereo field, try the Stereo Expansion plug-in to add depth and dimension to your track. You can also move your center image, but do so with caution to avoid unbalancing your mix.

I'd suggest using this plugin only for mastering, and even then, sparingly. Basically, it plays with the stereo image, it's not designed for everyday use, it's a specialized effect. On the higher end, Waves makes a similar plugin called the S1 Stereo Imager. Fun plugin, but I use it very sparingly (almost never) unless I need to tame a stereo track that's got out-of-whack panning.

When you set the guitars (or whatever) out to the maximum setting of 300 (an arbitrary number of Adobe's choosing for this effect) what you're doing is widening the signal so it is hard-panned. Assuming your guitar tracks are mono, all it's doing is doubling the signal of a mono track to both sides and hard panning it (the same thing as the guitar being center panned with no effects, 1.5 dB louder than the original mono signal.) If it sits "above" the mix more, it's because it's louder - just turn up your track fader 1.5 dB! If that sounds different still, then the expander may have some proprietary phase offset that's giving it a subtle chorus/phaser effect (which can often just make a mix muddier.) Not worth it...

In other words - use your pan pots to do panning, but make sure that each track of guitars is a unique performance. There's never any reason to have duplicate tracks or to use stereo field enhancer/expander effects. In general, stay away from things like BBE Sonic Maximizer, Aphex Aural Exciter, stereo expansion, and other such "quick fix" effects. These are no substitute for using everyday tools like track faders, EQ, and compression with a good pair of ears. It's worth investing the time to learn how to use these, even if you're just recording demos in your bedroom.

 

[Kenneth R.]

definitely in agreement with kazrog on this.

Oinkness you record 4 seperate tracks of the same riff, pan 1 L, 1 R, 1 80L, 1 80R, if you were asking about the general theory discussed around here. I find that it works very well.