Uneasy re: talking money with bands

[Ermz]

Not sure if I'm alone here, but I find it pretty hard to reconcile the idea of working with a band creatively while at the same time always talking about finances, fees etc. When I'm creatively involved in a long-term project, the very last thing I want to do is create a chasm between myself and the band by talking about money, invoicing etc. etc.

How do you guys deal with this mentally? I essentially just feel like a scumbag when I do it, but have to keep reminding myself that it's a job at the end of the day, and I have to eat at some point. It's just hard to really get 'into it' with a band, when you always feel that divide.

I've thought in the past that having a manager or accountant who deals with all financial related aspects of your business could be a good way of separating the two. Essentially frees you up to be as creative as possible, and the band deal with the manager or whomever as the 'money guy' and see him as the scumbag rather than you.

Hah, I don't know. Thoughts?

 

[::XeS::]

Yes..A third person is a cool idea but if you don't have one you have to face the problem by yourself.
The best way is to clear up every financial aspect before the start, so everybody knows how is your way to work.
Unfortunately if you start to act like a friend, bands (the unprofessionals) often take advantage by this, postponing payments, etc... ("you are a friend so don't doubt...we'll pay")

 

[vespiz]

Yeah, I don't like talking about money. I know that I have to put a price on what I do, but .. it kinda tends to water down the cool thing we have going, you know?
And I always feel like I'm overcharging, whatever I'm asking!
Luckily, my studio partner isn't too concerned and I can always ask him to do the talks!

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

I hate it too... I don't really know what it is, cause it's not like I don't feel justified in making money for what I do... it just kinda kills that camaraderie you develop with the band.

I try to get it just out of the way very early on.. but inevitably I usually have to end up asking that god awful question "hey uhh did you guys remember to bring that money?"

hate it hate it hate it.

 

[DeclanWhite]

i have friends that are trying to get me to produce their EP for free. i already charged them 5 songs for 180 $ which was being overly nice.. they want another 4 or so for free.. i said 300$ which is shit all, but they are trying to convince me otherwise.

 

[006]

You just have to look at it as it's part of the business. They come to you for a service, anywhere they go they have to pay - you shouldn't feel bad about talking about the financial aspects of a project.

 

[::XeS::]

Anyway, also if I work with friends, the rule is "you don't get anything if I don't have the money on my hands, even a single mp3"
Some months ago a band that wanted to work with me tried to start a discussion like "you know....we don't have the money...." so I immediately said them "if you wanna do a 12 songs album you need the money. If you don't have the money it's useless to discuss about a single thing. Find a job and get the money you need because you can't pretend that people works a month for nothing".
Fortunately, the drummer I'm editing at the moment paid me his part during the session because "it's the right thing...you work and you deserve the money"

 

[Machinated]

i generally think bands dont mind paying up as long as you make it really clear of whats expected/agreed. most important thing is to get the agreed money at the same time, rather than letting them pay you individually as band members. fuck that! no chance of me chasing after them!

 

[Soundlurker]

If you can afford a manager/accountant, then it's the way to go.

When I was discussing a couple of project that need mastering, Nathan didn't avoid the topic of payment but he did introduce me to the studio manager which happened to be a really friendly guy and we kept audio and non-audio discussions seperate, which just feelt right.

 

[jangoux]

Man, that is tough. You NEED to talk this kind of stuff, or else you may have problems with the band (as you know, of course). But talking this kind of stuff also often creates a weird thing. I dont know, I dont have an answer and I am having many problem regarding this issue atm lol

 

[Styvo]

You could go down the route manager but then you also need to increase your rates to cover there's.It's a worthwhile option as it could also mean that your manager lands you better and bigger projects but he/she would really need to know the business.
I think mentally you need to get it all sorted prior to any session project start with clearly outlined objectives and terms.An invoice should be given to the client prior any work commencing with it stating you're overall fee for the project with a 50% deposit required prior to session/project start date.Upon completion of project the remaining outstanding amount needs to be cleared
and if the project isn't finished but is finished by the set day's time you agreed to,then a new invoice needs to be written out with the new agreed terms.
I think if you do separate the two,creative from business and just manage it you will find that clients accept it and enjoy it also because they are clear and understand the terms and then you will be left to your devices to focus on the creative side of it.
Either way.....don't be shy to tell someone what your worth and what your price is,you're not in the audio game to win every job,but to continue doing what you enjoy over the long run.
If they can't afford you...then so be it......life is tough is it not?
Otherwise guess who won't be eating ;-))

 

[Let it burn...]

I just ask an advance deposit of 50 percent and I ask the rest before I send the mixes.

 

[Skyweaver]

have a stated - undisputed contract of your terms and conditions, ensure that bands read, understand and sign off before committing to any work....and when you can afford a 3rd party person to handle the money matters - get them in.

the whole cash thing should be sorted before anything is done, so you know the boundaries of the process and everyones expectations are managed - and you are free to focus on the most important part...creating music

 

[Ermz]

The contract thing will just create an even larger divide, the way I see it.

I've never had much of an issue actually getting the money from the bands, that's not the point of this. The thing that troubles me is continually referring to those finances for each new part in the process. Each new set of tracking sessions etc. I'm always firing off new invoices and it just digs holes into the rapport you build with these people.

 

[jval]

maybe you think it's more of an issue than it is. Yeah it can be awkard, but the bands expect to pay, so it's not like sending an invoice is offensive to them.
It helps having a 3rd party but it can add more of a headache if it's not needed. When you send them the confirmation, just make it clear when the payment is due - i say 50% on the first day, and 50% on the last day. That way you're not wondering when it's coming and they don't try to put it off..

 

[Erik Monsonis]

I always bring a contract (2 copies) to the studio on the first day, so everybody signs it (although I charge per song, so I can always tell the total before starting) before actually recording anything. Then I receive half the payment. The band knows it and never fails at that point.

 

[PhilTheBeard]

Yeah we just talk to each band we do and quote them whatever we think it is going to cost for the total project. All the time it takes to get everything tracked and also mixed. And then just shoot them the quote before we even book a date and as soon as we get half up front we book their dates and then on the first day of tracking they give us the other half. Makes life easier and you don't have to worry about money during the session or even after it.

 

[Ermz]

The problem with that approach, Phil, is that most of the bands that want to do a full record here are not going to be able to get ~$6k for a deposit and then another $6k immediately. Apart from not necessarily being an accurate quote for how much time it may actually take, it's a lot of money for bands to get together all in one time. Most of the ones I know prefer to pay in smaller installments as we go, at the end or start of every 'set' of sessions.

 

[PhilTheBeard]

Yeah i can understand that completely. If i was doing it that way i'd take the money at the start of the next session before any tracking starts. and if the balance is left over after the tracking is done and your mixing the album just keep a log of what they have paid and your time put into it. and cut them receipts every time they pay and keep a copy for yourself for the books.

 

[SkybluestudiosBEN]

I usually just collect a deposit before session and full payment day of session, that way its never on my mind while im working.