Uneasy re: talking money with bands

[Chris_P_Critter]

Pricing matters, etc. aside - it sounds like this is more or less discomfort talking business with people.

Maybe the key is to structure your interactions with the band in such a way that the first 10-15 minutes of your meeting (think of it as an actual business meeting, because that what it is) is business matters only, and THEN you can dive into the session. Make sure you do this outside of the studio enviroment completely, then take a 10-15 minute break to grab a coffee or whatever, shoot the shit with them to rebreak the ice, then dive in on the clock.

This sounds like you're creating your own anxiety and barriers - no offence intended - we all do this in cases where we feel uncomfortable. The key is a change in mindset I think.

 

[DaveBlack]

Nah, I feel ya man. I always get this queezy, awkward feeling right before I ask for the money at the end of the session. Yes, I trust my clients to pay at the end...It's a psychological thing...You feel as though youre doing something you love and deep down inside, you feel like you don't "deserve" to be compensated for it. Deserve might be the wrong word but I think you know what I mean.

I've found two ways to combat those feelings:

1. Make a joke out of the way you ask for the money. For example I'll do stewies voice when he's asking brian for his money in that family guy skit. Sounds much gayer than it is lol.

2. Burn copies of what you just recorded at the end and hand them to the band members as they hand you the money. Makes the exchange far less awkward.

 

[lolzgreg]

Bands I work with know I'm out to help them, and that they're paying me because I care and will deliver them a product they'll love. It's the same for you.

Half upfront, half upon completion is the way I usually roll:

Your project will likely take x amount of hours. This is the amount you have to pay up front.

You log the amount of hours you work every day in a book with initials of the band mates.

Once you pass the allotted/estimated time frame you set forth in the beginning, you collect the second half of the money, and then you collect your final payment at the end if you went over that time frame.

It's really the only way to do things, aside from paying daily at the end of each session like Joey does it. That works, but most bands don't have the money to do that.

In this tough economy, a lot of the time I give bands a discounted hourly rate ($5.00 less an hour or so, sometimes more depending on the project) up to a certain point, make them pay for that in full, and then charge my hourly rate after that.

You shouldn't feel awkward, business is business, but friendship can be involved

-Greg

 

[if6was9]

I totally understand. I always get akward when it comes to the money side. I hate talking money- even when I do live gigs I hate bringing up money, but you have to. You can't let a band walk away without giving you money or you'll never see it.
The worst for me is when a project goes over time or we do it in sections and we need to book more time, especially if it's just a few hours to do some vocals or something. I always feel akward about asking for a days rate so usually just give em a discounted one for only a few hours. I'm very friendly with alot of bands I record since I usually have met them through gigs before hand.
I'd love to just have someone come in at the end with a notepad that says ye were here for X days. X times his rate = y. Give him y now!!

 

[DaveBlack]

hire a front desk girl ... everybody wins



and by everybody I mean your penis





and your wallet

 

[XxRobbieChaosxX]

hire a front desk girl ... everybody wins



and by everybody I mean your penis





and your wallet

I think this whole topic was meant to be serious.

 

[Canorous]

Mate, there's nothing un-serious about work place sexual harassment.

 

[updog]

nothing un-serious

QFT

 

[Star Ark]

My band's playing with a band called Eye of the Enemy tonight so I just cheked their myspace and wouldn't you know it Ermz did the mixing, and it sounds incredible!
You should feel 100% confident when discussing money considering how good a job you do, and if a band has an issue with it too bad for them.

I don't know about mixing/producing for money but I do know about teaching instruments and I've been hired a few times as a session guy and I used to let people get away with murder concerning money, I felt bad asking to be paid. Unfortunately there are people out there who are generally decent people but once money comes along they turn into malicious bastards.


If the vibe is being lost just because of you doing your job, ignore it and let the sooks sulk, you haven't done anything wrong.

I'm guessing people use you based off recommendations from other bands, if that is the case then the band must be expected to pay, and they have to be expected to be able to discuss finances professionally. You need to plan how long certain aspects of the recording process will take (and how much each aspect will cost them and how much time it will cost you ), to get the best recording possible you have to discuss these things right?

It is in the band's best interest to be able to talk about it, maybe try and explain that somehow?

 

[Ermz]

Sweet, which one of the bands are you in? Dreadnaught, Teramaze.. Damnation's Day?

Wish I could make the gig but Geelong is a little out of the way from here, hah.

 

[DaveBlack]

I think this whole topic was meant to be serious.

I also posted a serious response about two posts above that one.

 

[Mikaël-ange]

Sweet, which one of the bands are you in? Dreadnaught, Teramaze.. Damnation's Day?

Wish I could make the gig but Geelong is a little out of the way from here, hah.

Teramaze

 

[Full_Tilt]

Im not a commercial studio producer but on all of the occasions Ive walked into a studio session as a musician the fee has been paid up front for an agreed studio time schedule . The money is then out of the way and its time to get on with the work. Its up to the producer to decide how hard he thinks he needs to push for best results and how long he needs to spend on each stage . If the band then wants to improve the performance tracking further they will have to book a further session .Its up to the band to be rehearsed and ready! Thats how most pro's work .

 

[Star Ark]

Hi I'm Neil and I play in Teramaze. The gig was very cool, all the bands were tight and put on a good show, and the crowd was moshing and rocking out for all 4 bands which is great to see, and Eye of the Enemy's bass player was doing the most neck wrenching windmills I've seen in ages. That dude is gonna be sore today.

Who are you Analgrinder? Maybe we've met or you played the show with us or something?

 

[Kazrog]

I use Blinksale to do my invoicing with bands:

http://www.blinksale.com/

It solves the entire issue. Haven't had a funky interaction since I started using it.

 

[AdamWathan]

I use Blinksale to do my invoicing with bands:

http://www.blinksale.com/

It solves the entire issue. Haven't had a funky interaction since I started using it.

Interesting, but how exactly does this solve the issue? It's not really any different than me emailing a PDF invoice I make myself and giving them my Paypal address from what I can tell. Am I missing out on some cool benefit to the service?

 

[Ermz]

Yeah, with Adam on this one. Doesn't seem to offer any sort of service that I don't already provide to clients, nor any form of record keeping I don't already do. It doesn't change the fact that they're still being billed throughout the process.

 

[Mikaël-ange]

Who are you Analgrinder? Maybe we've met or you played the show with us or something?

Nope, I simply enjoyed watching Terramaze studio report since a while and, for add to that I have a good memory when someone say something on a previous post.

 

[Nebulous]

Ermz, are you mainly refering to general billing here, or those times when you want to spend more time with the band in a production role to get better takes, add more layers, etc, but require them to pay for the ideas you throw on the table and the time it takes to record them?

 

[Ermz]

General, but those times certainly don't make it any easier. Convincing bands to fork out for pre-production time can be especially hard, since it usually entails us just sitting around, tracking throw-away takes and talking about the music. Not many see the value in it, and I suppose I don't blame them, at least until they've done a record and understand its need.