Universal: Comments (MODERATED!!)

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Jan 3, 2002
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Drammen, Norge
I decided to delete the other thread, as it was getting out of hand.
Some of the posts were nice of course, I don't wanna alienate anyone here for voicing their opinions, but since I'm too lazy to edit all those posts, this is the result....

Rules:

- No insults! (post will be deleted)
- Look before you leap!
- Keep it constructive!
- Be polite!
- No mention of downloads/filesharing! (post will be deleted!)
 
Okay, here are my comments:

The production is near perfect. Daves drumming deserves much applaud, as well as Tyrs bass. Vintersorg has very fine moments on this release, and some very annoying moments. The first 3 tunes are excellent, as are the final 3. My Domain is absolutely breathtaking, Vortex shines. And Stir of Seasons I feel is the best all around song on the record. I really don't know what the hell is going on in the middle of the album, songs drag and fall apart. Maybe I need a few more listens, but I can't say that this a favorite. Epic and Empiricism still reign. If you don't have the album yet, make sure your order the bonus track CD...without the bonus tracks, your missing out on two awesome songs. Worth the purchase, but a bit of let down so far.
 
I decided to delete the other thread, as it was getting out of hand.
Some of the posts were nice of course, I don't wanna alienate anyone here for voicing their opinions, but since I'm too lazy to edit all those posts, this is the result....

Rules:

- No insults! (post will be deleted)
- Look before you leap!
- Keep it constructive!
- Be polite!
- No mention of downloads/filesharing! (post will be deleted!)

Thanks a lot Erik, this was certainly necessary. I'm sorry for giving you more work.

I'll comment more later, but I can just say that I loved the album from beginning to end :headbang:.
 
well what i can tell about the album...It´s perfect,seriously...it´s absoluting amazing...havoc open the album with a brutal way..i love the vocals in reason and the lars vocals in fleshflower..I'm a big fan from borknagar,and i'm a bassist, so Erik..you're a goddammit bassit :'D your bass lines is so beautiful ..they fix beautifuly with the atmosphere..better impossible, i'm a big fan from vintersorg too, the grim vocals are too brutal :D cleans too, i saw a lot of negative comments about that new way in the compositions from borknagar but..if you guys just stoped in 'true norwegian black metal 666 from hell' things like the first album *btw a beautiful album too haha :D*you dont get this sucess you guys have today..all i have to say is GREAT WORK..i truly hope the illegal downloads dont desapoint you too much, and PLEASE A SOUTH AMERICA TOUR !! D''': borknagar have a lot of fans in america..come visit us :D And cannot wait to Mr.V's new album in this year omfg :'D
c ya!
 
Oh last thing...i know it's too 'off-topic' what i will say now but Erik: if you could make the basslines in Mr.V's new album..it will be a beautiful thing to hear :) I know thats strange to say but fretless bass in the vintersorg albums is the perfect bass to pass a beautiful melody with all vintersorg's ideas, that's just my opinion and i know Mr.V have all thought from the new masterpiece..but if you have a chance to do some basslines i'll love to hear in vinter's album.
 
So far the album is a monster. It has to grow on you, I like the production because it`s nice and clean, you can hear everything you want, the density gives a nice feeling that you have to listen over and over again and rediscover the beauty of Borks music. The density of the music is also a negative thing, if you don`t pay atention to the music it will passing by you, but hey why do we listening music? The songs are very well constructed, you can recognize that this is Bork, but at same time they are stepping in a new direction. I`m glad that they didn`t rewrite any past albums of theirs. This album is an evolution for the band. Thanks for this album.
 
I do like the album. For me it is only the production which I don't like that much. I prefer the more raw production on the other albums. It's true, like Ozell said, that you can hear every detail but I prefer the keys far more back in the mix per example. If I remember it good, Ostein said this album does have the dark sound from the first 4 albums. I cannot agree with this. The sound is much cleaner and I think it would be accessible for more people who're thinking the first 4 albums are too raw/hard.
I think Vintersorg's vocals are strong! He did wrote some really catchy vocal lines which we can expect from him. It's the vocals I like the most on this album.
Dave is a really good drummer but I prefer Asgeirs drumming. It's about both the drum sounds (production) and the drum parts he wrote for it. It's good he did his own thing but I like Ageirs style better. It changed the sound of Borknagar, which is in away a good thing of course. It says something about his style which is dominant and not that average.
I don't think this is Borknagar's best album. But I like it and alreay pre-ordered it.
 
i wanted to wait a little bit before giving my opinion about the album and listen to it at least five times.
the first listening left me a little bit undecided about what to think...but then, after the third listening the album started to grow and i started to appreciate it more and more. i mean it is impossible to give an opinion after the first or the second listening....we are speaking of borknagar, not of slayer. they are more complex than an average metal band, the music must be undressed line after line, to discover what's in the hidden levels. 5 listening are still very few to make a proper review.
maybe it's not borky's best album, but still very valid in my opinion.
i agree with windvang...i cannot see the same old sound/style of the first albums.
i like vintersorg voice. maybe because i expected from him exactly this kind of performance. i was sure he was far aways from epic or empiricism's kind of voice and more similar to the lastest vintersorg's works.
i'm getting used to his high pitched voice and even if i prefer the old style i'm liking it a lot. but sometimes he tries to force it a little bit too much with odd results. for example i really hated abrasion's tide chorus. it's really out of tune in my opinion. while in wordwide's chorus he pushes his voice really high but with a beautiful tremolo (and above all tuned) effect.
i liked also my domain, even if i'm not a big vortex fan! :oops:
the weirdest song to my ears is fleshflower, and it's strange because it seems to be the one that mostly impressed some of you.
it sounds weird to me because it's not in borknagar's style, a little bit too catchy and happy for their standars.... :lol:
 
For me the time between the first release date and the delayed release date took away a bit of the attractiveness of the album. There were too much words said before releasing the album.
Still the clear production of the album, bonus tracks and the big box-set feels like a step too close the commerce.
On the other hand I think these songs lend themselves more for playing for a crowd. Maybe this was a thought for the members when writing the songs?
I easily can imagine songs like For A Thousand Years To Come, Fleshflower and My Domain played live by the band when the crowd is singing along with them.
 
I found this one on Encyclopedia Metallum, very well-written. Pasting it here:

A More Complex Borknagar - 88%
Written by thomash on February 22nd, 2010


Borknagar’s style has always done a great job of using folk melodies without diluting their black metal. Considering their use of keyboards, avant-garde melodic structures, progressive songwriting, and clean vocal harmonies they remain surprisingly aggressive. Over their career, the aforementioned, unconventional elements of their style have been developed and taken a leading role in their music. Universal continues that trend; this is one of Borknagar’s tightest, most progressive albums yet. In Borknagar’s case, musical maturity is definitely a good thing, although it has come at the cost of raw aggression. Aggressive black metal, while occasionally present on Universal, yields pride of place to complex compositions even more than on earlier albums. Their compositions are complex, though, in an engaging way.

Of course, the problem that often presents itself in tight, musically proficient albums is a lack of ‘soul’ or humanity. Fortunately, this really isn’t a problem for Universal. The drums, which are the closest to this problem, still manage to escape the danger of over-triggering despite the modern sound. They could, perhaps, sound a bit thicker but not without competing for space with the unusually thick guitar tone and complex, heavily inflected lead melodies – a definite high point for the album. Even the keyboards sound soulful under Lazare’s skillful direction and Vintersorg’s idiosyncratic but charismatic vocals are definite crowd-pleasers.

There’s so much going on melodically and harmonically that the drum sound really needs to be precise in order to cut through the rich textures. Pianos, keyboards, flutes, and violins all make appearances, complementing the guitars tastefully. Unlike many bands that integrate these elements, Borknagar does not underwrite their guitar parts; the guitars could probably carry their songs alone, although not without losing some of what makes these compositions special. There are occasional, virtuosic uses of counterpoint, as is best demonstrated by “For a Thousand Years to Come,” trading off with driving, headbangable black metal riffing and atmospheric lulls in the action. The band uses these moods with an excellent sense of compositional dynamics to keep the listener’s interest.

Of course, the playing itself can sound mechanical if the focus is on sheer technicality. Universal doesn’t feel like a Necrophagist record, though. The band hasn’t tried to extirpate all evidence that human beings are playing these instruments – as tight as the playing is, it’s very obviously not at mechanical levels of precision which is definitely an advantage of this record. Indeed, the melodies are often designed to be evocative and the musicianship reinforces rather than undermines that. On the other hand, there are plenty of avant-garde, disjointed melodies and dissonant chord shapes as well, but none are jarringly so. Somehow, Borknagar is able to write melodies that seem both intuitive and unorthodox simultaneously.

The vocals are generally given a bit of a back seat although they are certainly active, trading off between black metal rasps and multi-tracked, clean harmonies. The latter is much more memorable, although those new to Borknagar will probably find the intentionally sharp pitch a bit jarring. It’s nothing new to Borknagar, though, and there are certainly similarities between the singing on this record and other avant-garde/’post-black’ metal bands, particularly Solefald. Meanwhile, the black metal rasps seem to be relegated to a minor, atmospheric role. They’re not particularly noteworthy but there’s nothing wrong with them.

On the other hand, the use of all the ‘extra’ instruments is probably the most memorable. Of course, the flutes, pipes, violins, and choir sounds are synthesized by the keyboard but the composition and tone is so convincing you might not know it just by listening to the album. Indeed, there’s a noticeable influence from 70s progressive rock and proto-metal such that moments are almost reminiscent of Jethro Tull. The connection is further established by the use of a Hammond organ which often seems to channel Jon Lord. This, of course, can be traced to the influence of Vintersorg on vocals and Lazare of Solefald on keyboards.

But you need to be paying close attention to get the most out of the eclectic influences on Universal. In all likelihood, there are plenty more but the aforementioned ones seem the most noteworthy, if only because they’re a bit more unusual. A superficial listening will reveal a lot of continuity from the early to middle period of Borknagar, particularly Quintessence and Empiricism, since a lot of the same musicians are involved and also because the band is writing in the dark, neoclassical mood that black and ‘post-black’ metal seems to have a natural affinity for. Consequently, I would predict that a lot of fans alienated by the last two albums will be pleased with this album’s return to form musically.

The lyrics definitely keep pace with the music as well. Vintersorg, Oystein Brun, and Lazare all contribute with diverse styles of poetry. Oystein’s tends toward an older, romantic European style while Lazare and Vintersorg are a bit more post-modernist. Of course, the dominant lyrical theme is Nature, revered with a capital ‘N.’ The lyrics alternate between Oystein’s paeans to the majesty and ‘invincibility’ of Nature and Lazare’s and Vintersorg’s post-modernist lament of lost ecological balance. Their resolution seems to come in “My Domain,” where Oystein looks to the distant future to describe Nature’s inevitable demise as a necessary step toward rebirth.

This concept obviously descends from Norwegian antiquity and it is that ancient atavism that the band looks to as a solution to our current environmental woes. However, up until the last song, Oystein’s side of the lyrics seems to dismiss human destruction of the environment as inherently futile; with “My Domain,” he shows us the wider perspective that guides his lyrics most clearly. The extension of the band’s reactionary naturalism on Universal leads to some interesting ideas. For example, a personal favorite appears on “Reason,” which seems to decry modernist, rationalist thought for robbing Nature of its power to affect us. In summation, the lyrics are generally well-written and present some fascinating philosophical arguments despite a few minor errors that seem to demonstrate that the lyricists’ first language is not English.

That I wrote this much on this album without (I can assure you) setting out to do so is a testament to the richness contained on Universal. Texturally, conceptually, and technically complex, this album is definitely one of Borknagar’s finer moments. If there is any flaw on the album it is that the album doesn’t seem to have a clear, focused sense of its overarching purpose but rather a vague theme joining the individual pieces together. Since songs are all in such a similar mood, they share general structural similarities and aren’t completely individuated. Nevertheless, Universal should be considered a minor classic among Norwegian avant-garde metal and is certain to please metalheads interested in that style and/or all of the influences that the band fuses on this album.
 
ahahah i absolutely need to quote what a guy wrote on an italian forum. it made me laught soooo much :lol:

related to himself: "when instead of reading Blue Oyster Cult you read Blue Oystein Brun that means you should stop listening to Universal"
 
I've listened Universal enough to make a little review.

First of all, the production is a major step-up, specially on guitars and drums which sound metal enough this time. When I heard the album the first time, I noticed the huge amount of layers that made the first listenings heavy but at the same time with an overwhelming feeling, the album shows great force and vitality. The musicianship is excellent. No one does an average performance; there is a uniqueness (and perfection sometimes) on execution and sound that I knew this is Borknagar and who is playing each instrument. There's an identity that is still there IMO, at least individually talking.

About the songwriting; at first I was kinda confused. Some songs have standard structures (ex: Havoc) and others are really diverse (ex: the next track Reason), some of them are very like each other and some others are really different than the rest (ex: Stir of seasons, Fleshflower), but after listening the whole album and reaching 'My Domain', I understood or felt something: the core of the whole album is inspired by the old Borknagar, more precisely TAC and Q. After the first listening I recalled a lot of riffs and said: this could be easily on TOD, this one is right off TAC, this fast section is very like Quintessence and so on. What makes this album sound like something totally new and distract me of the previous statement are the vocals and keys.

About each element: Guitars are maybe the most 'Borknagar-ish' element, there are a lot of those majestic riffs around Universal, even more than Epic and Empiricism. These riffs are really like Borknagar has always been; even I think I've heard a couple of parts that, with a rawer production, could fit perfectly on the first album (ex: Worldwide fastest moment). Most of time I thought about TAC. Bass is incredible! fast, creative and with great feeling/expression. I would dare to say that hte basslines here are better than Empiricism, what becomes this Tyr's performance on the best of the entire band's discography (I'm a fretless bassist and the bass was one of the things that I studied the most). Lars' keys were something I didn't see coming. Most of time are haunting, and retro. I liked the change and the slightly more restricted use of hammond organ (which flooded the past albums heavily) using something more atmospheric and dark.

Next comes drums. When I heard the first time Havoc, I didn't like too much Dave's drumming, more precisely the apparently slow hi hat over the blastbeasts and a couple of drum fills. Reason changed that inmediately. His overall performance is VERY reminiscent to Asgeir's drumming, but still there are some new things that I didn't see coming and were the things that I enjoyed the most (like his tech-death like drum fills on Reason and his incredible playing on My Domain). I felt that Dave was a little shy, maybe cause this was his first album with the band and he didn't want to screw it up. Even saying that, it's an impressive performance that is really weird to hear on black (or extreme) metal nowadays; a very creative and flowing style that is still agressive but with nice and beautiful details. I hope Dave makes more room for a more personal style next time.

Finally comes vocals. Mr V's grims are his best to date. He uses his usual grim and something more like a growling that diversify well the experience. About his cleans: are well done, just sometimes sounds a little forced to reach the higher notes. Mr V has been raising his vocal range since Cosmic Genesis. Now he sings really high, so high that I almost forgot he's a baritone. Some clean choruses are really catchy and there's no bad vocal harmony, at least melodically talking. I just didn't like a couple of things he did, but his overall performance is really great, specially if you see Borknagar as an avantgarde act instead just like a black metal band. Lars' vocals has been always a fav for me and while Mr V dominates everything thru Universal, he still shines, specially on his own song, Fleshflower. There's a third singer this time in the name of ICS Vortex. He does an incredibly epic and emotional work on 'My Domain'. It was a clever idea to end the (regular version of the) album in this way. This song brings back all the epicness that Borknagar always had, just emphatized for the great job of Simen, that brings nice memories of another era.

I think there's no bad song on Universal, but I think there are some songs vastly superior to others, Being My Domain and Reason the highlights IMO. Sometimes I thought about Cronian while I was listening Universal. I think it's not so weird, but not expected.

Favs tracks: My Domain, Reason, For a Thousand Years to Come, Worldwide.
Good tracks: Abrasion Tide, Havoc.
Decent tracks: Fleshflower, The Stir of Seasons.

As a final conclusion: It's a great album, musically their best since Empiricism or Maybe since Quintessence IMO. I just would love a more epic/'viking' vocal style to keep thinking this is more black metal than avantgarde, but still Mr V vocals fits pretty well with the complexity of the songwriting.

85/100
 
This may give everyone a dirrerent view of what I was thinking when I did drums on Universal....since I had to work with material that was a bit different than what Im normally working with-

 
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I've now listened to the album some more too.

I think it's excellent, in every sense. I like that each member of the band has time to shine, everyone's performance is pretty much spotless. Perfect? Indeed. I loved Mr V's vocals, very 'grim' when doing the black ones, but I adore the high notes. A real inspiration for me singer wanna-be :p . Dave's drumming was great, overall I prefer Asgeir's style, but the former did a great job too.

Some songs are definitely better than others, but I think they're all very good. Right now I'm into Fleshflower, My Domain and Reason a lot.

I really liked how prog-rock the album sounds at times, some bass notes sound like Pink Floyd's Time. The album is also very Avant-Garde at times, which I really fancy.

And without doubt, this is the band's best album since Empiricism, maybe even Quintessence. I'm not sure, but I'll make a comparison for certain.

Now I can only hope for an Andreas and Simen duo :headbang: .

If I were to give a score I'd give it a 9.2/100 :) .
 
I´ve got a Question: Why did you guys changed the design of the disc itself? i mean, the last 6 records got the dragon- symbol on it and the last 4 records the first letter of the album`s name in addition. I always liked that style.
 
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82 and counting (85 since I screencapped). That's not including my iPod which I haven't synced to my PC in a few days. Can't describe how badass this album is. I would have bought the box set on top of the Shirt Bundle if it didn't sell out :(
 
82 and counting (85 since I screencapped). That's not including my iPod which I haven't synced to my PC in a few days. Can't describe how badass this album is. I would have bought the box set on top of the Shirt Bundle if it didn't sell out :(

There are more options, as Defiance posted on the other thread. I want the t-shirt, so maybe I'll order that pack too, keep the shirt and give as a present the cd.
 
There are more options, as Defiance posted on the other thread. I want the t-shirt, so maybe I'll order that pack too, keep the shirt and give as a present the cd.

There's no way I'll buy this album without the 2 extra tracks, and it's a pity they didn't decide to include the extra tracks in any other bundles. To me, having more music is absolutely important, and I don't care for all the extra stuff in the box set. If they sold a digipack, just the CD with the 2 bonus tracks, I'd be all over it.

I'll probably buy a T-shirt too, anyway :headbang:
 
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