Universal: Comments (MODERATED!!)

[Nick_Perrin]

The bonustracks shall remain as those, as they are good, but to me it makes sense to handle them as a kind of "leftovers".

In my honest and humble opinion, I think the album ends much better with "Loci" than with the end of "My Domain" alone. Loci reminds me of some classic Borknagar magic while being absolutely fresh and new at the same time, and carries a real feel of finality while carrying us out of the musical expedition in that softer, more ethereal manner that we've seen before in closing tracks like "Fields of Long Gone Presence" and "The View of Everlast."

So I would have left Loci in right after My Domain, perhaps patching up the last 10 seconds to not end so suddenly or fading out to end the track.

Of course ideally they should have just released the album with all the tracks on every edition, but I got the box set regardless so whatever

 

[Vintgar]

I keep on listening to the album, but haven't felt that tick or click or whatever that Undefined mentioned yet. But I can say that My Domain is definitely the highlight of the album for me so far.

 

[Defiance]

My post was because I see some criticism of Universal and they make comparisons to older Bork albums. That makes me think that there was a preconceived idea of how they wanted that album to sound. That was just an observation.

Yes, I see that most of the people that complain about the new album whine that it's not 'grim' or 'black' enough. I don't understand, Borknagar stopped being a fully Black Metal band in 2001 (even before perhaps). Andreas vocals are, by far, the greatest he's ever done, his vocal range is just amazing. I think people cavil at him because they're jealous .

EDIT:

And Vintersorg also sang like that in Origin, so why not complain before?

 

[Azzor1911]

He even did it a little bit on Epic. I forgot the name of the song it's on, but the line goes something like this "Algae and plankton...."

 

[Allfader]

My post was because I see some criticism of Universal and they make comparisons to older Bork albums. That makes me think that there was a preconceived idea of how they wanted that album to sound. That was just an observation.

This is band's fault. They said that Universal was made with focus on the 'sound' and 'force' of their 4 first albums, so if the band says: hey, we're going back to the roots (at least in a way), why we shouldn't think that the music and vocals would sound a little like their past efforts - at least like Empiricism? I mean, Borknagar is not one of those heavy/thrash bands that said that they will return to their glory days, just to fail miserably (Metallica and SO MANY others), the band has been very consequent with their opinions and thoughts until now...but I think they exaggerated a little with Universal (maybe for them is that great, epic, grandiose, etc)

I see on the core a heavy TAC influence on Universal but it's hard to appreciate under so many layers of new stuff, which is good... heck, I love the album (I said that is their best since Empiricism) but I'm aware that Borknagar isn't the epic black/folk band they were before. Even so, I would like to hear more 'My Domain' kind of tracks on their future works.

 

[Elvina]

Yes, I see that most of the people that complain about the new album whine that it's not 'grim' or 'black' enough. I don't understand, Borknagar stopped being a fully Black Metal band in 2001 (even before perhaps). Andreas vocals are, by far, the greatest he's ever done, his vocal range is just amazing. I think people cavil at him because they're jealous .

EDIT:

And Vintersorg also sang like that in Origin, so why not complain before?

guys will you please finally stop this conversation? why do you need to keep coming back at us, those who just don't like this way of singing?? why can't you just accept that some people just don't like it and they all have their own reasons for it?? why do you need to keep picking at us for that? i personally have tried to explain my point of view on this countless times! It seems you never even read any of those posts! I'm growing really very weary of this! If you don't understand why i and some others don't like those clean vocals, can't you just accept it as a fact and be done with it? Go talk about how awesome you think Andreas sounds on Universal, just leave the different opinions out of this, please?! is that too much to ask for?

i have just listened to Origin very careful again. I have heard only just very few moments where Mr.V. sings with Universal kind of voice. On White, where it just blends perfectly in the duet with Lazare. On Cynosure and Acclimation it is probably most audible. But even there, most often it's just sung high pitched, but not so pronouncedly nasal as on Universal. Further, the problem is when there're just a couple of moments here and there sung like that, and it's completely different story when the entire album is sung like that!! (I have said this also countless times now) The only moment on Universal where he doesn't sing like that are harsh vocals and Loci.

HERE i was trying to explain what i'm talking about. If you don't hear the difference, there's nothing i can do about that. I do hear it very well. I rest my case, shall we now move on to talking how awesome this album is and leave our reasons for disliking it alone. Please.

He even did it a little bit on Epic. I forgot the name of the song it's on, but the line goes something like this "Algae and plankton...."

the song is called The Inner Ocean Hypothesis (see the link above) and i have mentioned that before in my review. Which i understand you have never read and it's perfectly fine with me.

Why do people assume that if you don't like a band's new album it's because you are afraid of change, or have some huge expectations for how it's supposed to sound? The mentality seems to be something like "well, I like it, so there must be something wrong with them if they don't."

exactly. and i'm so fcking tired of this.

Even when the posts explicitly say, "I don't expect this album to sound like these albums, they were just better"? No Borknagar fan, at this stage of the game, would expect "more of the same". But we are used to them delivering the goods- something new, something fresh, something interesting and engaging. It really doesn't make sense to me, to brush off the criticisms made of the album as just "oh, you just wanted it to sound more like (whatever) and you're not willing to listen to it with open ears."

couldn't agree more.

 

[Vintgar]

I agree with Elvina. I hear this different vocal style too, and right now I just don't like it, but probably it will grow on me one day, at least I hope so, because I consider myself az a hardcore Borkie fan and it's just not normal of me not liking a Bork masterpiece. It's quite interesting, some say it's Mr. V's best, some say it's not, I tend to agree with those who say it could be better. But it's just likes and dislikes, really not the subject of arguement.

 

[Erik Tiwaz]

I guess some people here needs to agree to disagree...

I've been reading a lot of reviews and comments from many different websites (including this one of course), and it seems to me that opinions vary a great deal, even when these concerns the same thing, for example the vocals or the production. It would be interesting to see a thorough statistic analysis on this from all the reviews and comments from around the net.

 

[Naglfar]

I guess some people here needs to agree to disagree...

I've been reading a lot of reviews and comments from many different websites (including this one of course), and it seems to me that opinions vary a great deal, even when these concerns the same thing, for example the vocals or the production. It would be interesting to see a thorough statistic analysis on this from all the reviews and comments from around the net.

I wouldn't put too much thought into commentary on the vocals, nor people on your forum getting testy about it. Andreas' vocal style is pretty unique, and I think that lends to much more polarized opinion about his vocal work on Universal. It's just the nature of the internet, and fans in general, to get a bit ugly about their opinions when they disagree. It is a subjective thing, after all, whether a certain kind of music speaks to you. I'm saying this as someone who thinks it is a great album, so I guess I don't have much to be upset about. =)

On that note, I think the production on the album is excellent, although I'm a layman. I'll probably have my brother, who is a musician, give it a listen and see what he thinks. I also absolutely love your bass playing on the album, makes me sad I quit playing many years ago. Otherwise I'd spend the next couple of months trying to learn Abrasion Tide!

 

[Erik Erna]

I have had the album in the car since I got it, so between back and fourth to work and my breaks, I've spun it quite a few times.

The album is one that really grows more and more, and I liked it to begin with. The vocals were more abstract on this album to me, so first impression wasn't that great. Now, I'm REALLY REALLY digging them.

 

[Defiance]

guys will you please finally stop this conversation? why do you need to keep coming back at us, those who just don't like this way of singing?? why can't you just accept that some people just don't like it and they all have their own reasons for it?? why do you need to keep picking at us for that? i personally have tried to explain my point of view on this countless times! It seems you never even read any of those posts! I'm growing really very weary of this! If you don't understand why i and some others don't like those clean vocals, can't you just accept it as a fact and be done with it? Go talk about how awesome you think Andreas sounds on Universal, just leave the different opinions out of this, please?! is that too much to ask for?

i have just listened to Origin very careful again. I have heard only just very few moments where Mr.V. sings with Universal kind of voice. On White, where it just blends perfectly in the duet with Lazare. On Cynosure and Acclimation it is probably most audible. But even there, most often it's just sung high pitched, but not so pronouncedly nasal as on Universal. Further, the problem is when there're just a couple of moments here and there sung like that, and it's completely different story when the entire album is sung like that!! (I have said this also countless times now) The only moment on Universal where he doesn't sing like that are harsh vocals and Loci.

Why stop? Aren't forums a place to discuss? You're definitely taking this too personal, and I'm not the only one who believes that. Did I say 'Elvina you suck for not liking the album!!!' Nope! So relax!

I guess some people here needs to agree to disagree...

I've been reading a lot of reviews and comments from many different websites (including this one of course), and it seems to me that opinions vary a great deal, even when these concerns the same thing, for example the vocals or the production. It would be interesting to see a thorough statistic analysis on this from all the reviews and comments from around the net.

Yeah I wanted to post a poll, but it's too soon to do that. And I'm still not sure how I'd do it hehe.

 

[Elvina]

Why stop? Aren't forums a place to discuss? You're definitely taking this too personal, and I'm not the only one who believes that. Did I say 'Elvina you suck for not liking the album!!!' Nope! So relax!

then go discuss the music and not the people and why they don't like this or that.
you said that we complain and whine. And cavil. And i wasn't talking about you alone. There was a nasty post here few days ago that got deleted, but i did get it in my mailbox and i read it. I just say i don't like some things. That's all.
And i ask of everybody to keep talking about the music, not discuss others' different opinions. That's all.

 

[Allfader]

then go discuss the music and not the people and why they don't like this or that.

Sure, but you must do the same.

I'm listening Universal more and more, and overall I still have a great impression of it. I'm learning a couple of songs on bass but I would love to hear a little more the guitars.

 

[Elvina]

Sure, but you must do the same.

I wasn't posting here at all until they started assuming things about people like me who don't like this and that and why that is. Those assumtions are not true and i ask not to do that anymore. I have nothing more to say about the music because i have already said everything i could and my opinion hasn't changed since.

 

[Erik Tiwaz]

I believe you have made your point Elvina. But I think it would be worth considering that sharing an opinion does not make you a part of an autonomous group. I don't think that the assumptions made here are out of line. This is well within acceptable parameters, and I do think that you might be misinterpreting their intent a little bit here.

But, please people, keep on topic!
This matter is closed.

 

[Undefined]

Haha this thread has really brought this peaceful forum to its knees

All I can add in is every day I listen to this album sometimes multiple times if I have time and I keep finding new elements to enjoy. Like Naglfar, I am a layman so I can't break down every instrument and the production in technical terms but I can say everything is really well done and I am just so pleased how this album turned out, really. I do have to say I read in here that someone said the bonus songs were 'left overs' and I disagree; I really love them and feel they are part of the "main" album, the perfect ending.

 

[Defiance]

Haha this thread has really brought this peaceful forum to its knees

All I can add in is every day I listen to this album sometimes multiple times if I have time and I keep finding new elements to enjoy. Like Naglfar, I am a layman so I can't break down every instrument and the production in technical terms but I can say everything is really well done and I am just so pleased how this album turned out, really. I do have to say I read in here that someone said the bonus songs were 'left overs' and I disagree; I really love them and feel they are part of the "main" album, the perfect ending.

True! I do feel like they're part of the main album, they don't really seem to be dissonant or anything like that.

I'm listening to the album more and more, it's hard because I don't want to get tired of it but it's difficult to stop listening to it. I notice more and more things every time, there're really a lot of layers. The album also feels very coherent/united. I now love the songs that I didn't like at first, e.g. Abrasion Tide.

The bonus of the box are excellent too, I'm glad the band included nice stuff like wallpapers, the 'making of' videos and the album in MP3! I really like the wallpapers, especially because of the different variations of the pictures (and the quality and size variety).

EDIT:

What do the ruins around the planet mean? I can translate them, but what's the exact meaning? The same as Tyr's bass haha?

 

[Helge-Uwe]

It's really weird that this topic needs to be moderated, but obviously it's necessary - unfortunately.

Regarding the bonustracks: "Leftovers" of course just in relation, I guess it's a matter of owning the boxset or not since I (obviously) just own a normal digipak-edition which unfortunately doesn't have the bonustracks on it. So I got used to the album in it's "meant to be"-way and I'm VERY satisfied with that, having listened to the bonustracks afterwards and I don't miss them at all. I'm not that big a fan of "The View of Everlast" (indeed I never felt comfortable with this track) or the instrumental at the end of TAC. But I admit that Loci is a nice track. But it is nothing compared to the 8 tracks that make this well-rounded up album what it is.

I wish I have the chance to see Borknagar once more after having watched them in Wacken. The new songs would sound amazing live. But I'm so glad to have seen them with an "older" setlist last year. Unforgettable..

Narf, I hate my english but one should be able to understand

 

[Oerko]

EDIT:

What do the ruins around the planet mean? I can translate them, but what's the exact meaning? The same as Tyr's bass haha?

Its the tracklist! ^^

 

[Azzor1911]

I´ve got a Question: Why did you guys changed the design of the disc itself? i mean, the last 6 records got the dragon- symbol on it and the last 4 records the first letter of the album`s name in addition. I always liked that style.

I would also really like to know this.

Tyr?