US and UK vs. Piracy: Have you read this?
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SimonTaddio_Qc
Headbanger
The "smaller people" like you so wisely said, are not the ones that get their paycheck cut the most by the movie piracy thing. They don't get royalties nor publisher's right. And, I'll say it again, I have NO remorse ripping off 20th Century Fuck, Disney corporation, or whatever the hell.
I am a musician and I do get pirated, so don't come and tell me I don't know what the consequences are, I live with them every fucking day, like a lot of people here.
I am a musician and I do get pirated, so don't come and tell me I don't know what the consequences are, I live with them every fucking day, like a lot of people here.
Zack Uidl
Member
^Wow dude, you really do not understand how things actually work.
Piracy causes a loss of income, which then causes fewer jobs to be created, which then accounts for far more in damages. This is only one basic example. Your "logic" is horribly, horribly flawed
I find it sad that people will just come up with some sort of excuse that just fits the way that they want it too to justify their wrongs to themselves
Piracy causes a loss of income, which then causes fewer jobs to be created, which then accounts for far more in damages. This is only one basic example. Your "logic" is horribly, horribly flawed
I find it sad that people will just come up with some sort of excuse that just fits the way that they want it too to justify their wrongs to themselves
SimonTaddio_Qc
Headbanger
Fine then, I take back everything I said.
I'm just an asshole that doesn't go to the movies and download them or wait for them to get on the television (onto wich I have no cable)
Is it better now?
Honestly, I knew beforehand that the music industry was getting ripped beyond what we can calculate, still that's what I decided to do, even if I knew the money wouldn't be there. Does that mean I agree with piracy? No. If I had 5 figures in my bank account (even 3 or 4!), I'd go to the fucking movies, so cut me some loose and don't call me ignorant, because you obiviously don't know me nor what I know or don't know. If you ask me if I rather get heard or get paid, I'll tell you I waaaaay much rather get my music out there, if the choice was one or the other. I think the same for movies.
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
I think we hit territory that everyone is having a hard time understanding. I am seeing this word "moral" but everyone expects morals to be objective to every person. Truth of the matter is moral is very subjective to each person, so the argument of piracy isn't moral is merely the opinion of the person saying it. Typical morals that most humans learn as a minimum is anything is ok to do as long as is doesn't intentionally cause physical harm to another person or living thing or devastate its means of survival, everything else is just a special case for that individual. Now the question of how ethical is pirating is a different story. Maybe pirates justify what they do because they know its wrong, but at the same time, maybe they see nothing wrong with it and try to explain why they see nothing wrong with it.
With that in mind I believe that file sharing is a great thing, but can have devastation repercussions if the business model isn't updated to compensate for the amount of pirates sharing intellectual property. Maybe instead of compensating by laying off on jobs, take away the multi million actors and musicians make for an album/episode/movie and pay the hard working people that brought those celebrities to their fame. If the celebs don't like it, I am pretty sure record labels and talent agencies can easily find new talent that will take their place.
Labels have stayed away from a new technology which proves they don't give a shoot about piracy. There has been this technology that has been out for years that will not allow a CD to be ripped to a computer or copied via master CD burner/copier, the audio that comes out is a digital noise. The labels/artists that don't want their work copied can use that and the ones who don't give a shit won't use it. Its not a fix all but it makes shit more difficult to pirate because you need to equipment to manually rip that information by analog means and convert it back. The fact that Labels haven't done much simply means they don't give a shit, and if they don't then why should we?
By the way as I have explained before I am not a pirate, I rarely pickup a torrent every now and then to hear music test out software to get a trial run on it, if I like it, I go out an buy it, if I don't like it I delete it off my computer. Morally don't see any problem with that whatsoever, because in the end what I do, does not hurt anyone, physically or financially. However pirating just to get free shit, is a total different story.
With that in mind I believe that file sharing is a great thing, but can have devastation repercussions if the business model isn't updated to compensate for the amount of pirates sharing intellectual property. Maybe instead of compensating by laying off on jobs, take away the multi million actors and musicians make for an album/episode/movie and pay the hard working people that brought those celebrities to their fame. If the celebs don't like it, I am pretty sure record labels and talent agencies can easily find new talent that will take their place.
Labels have stayed away from a new technology which proves they don't give a shoot about piracy. There has been this technology that has been out for years that will not allow a CD to be ripped to a computer or copied via master CD burner/copier, the audio that comes out is a digital noise. The labels/artists that don't want their work copied can use that and the ones who don't give a shit won't use it. Its not a fix all but it makes shit more difficult to pirate because you need to equipment to manually rip that information by analog means and convert it back. The fact that Labels haven't done much simply means they don't give a shit, and if they don't then why should we?
By the way as I have explained before I am not a pirate, I rarely pickup a torrent every now and then to hear music test out software to get a trial run on it, if I like it, I go out an buy it, if I don't like it I delete it off my computer. Morally don't see any problem with that whatsoever, because in the end what I do, does not hurt anyone, physically or financially. However pirating just to get free shit, is a total different story.
Glad to see that there is more of a crackdown on this kind of stuff. A guy I work with openly admits to having about 2 TB of pirated music and movies. I have learned to avoid those conversations with him because it pisses me off that he thinks it is okay to have that much content illegally.
Entitlement, in my opinion, is one of the reasons the US economy is so fucked up. Just because content is available for download does not mean that you have the right to own it.
If someone is okay with having their content pirated, more power to them I guess. I just don't understand the logic of "I am okay with my stuff getting pirated, so it is okay to pirate stuff from others."
Entitlement, in my opinion, is one of the reasons the US economy is so fucked up. Just because content is available for download does not mean that you have the right to own it.
If someone is okay with having their content pirated, more power to them I guess. I just don't understand the logic of "I am okay with my stuff getting pirated, so it is okay to pirate stuff from others."
egan.
daylightdies.com
... do you really have to pull this *again*? If your personal 'morals' don't include respect for other people's property and livelihood, we can safely call them 'hobbies' or 'detours from flagrantly ignoring other people's rights' instead and lose nothing but a misleading name.
Jeff
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
No, you didn't.
You handwaved about something-or-other and seem to have overlooked the part where people need music to make money and completely failed to explain why it isn't theft to take their things without their permission, and as has been explained to *everyone else who has tried to set up that divide in previous stupid piracy threads* that doesn't cut it. (Save us all some time and go see one of those for why you're just not right...)
Jeff
You handwaved about something-or-other and seem to have overlooked the part where people need music to make money and completely failed to explain why it isn't theft to take their things without their permission, and as has been explained to *everyone else who has tried to set up that divide in previous stupid piracy threads* that doesn't cut it. (Save us all some time and go see one of those for why you're just not right...)
Jeff
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
I never said that taking property without permission wasn't theft, because it is. I made mention that the situation is more of an ethical one that should be handled by the labels and movies businesses by changing their business model. People will always steal, you can't change that, you have to make it harder for them. So don't ever think for a second that I advocate theft
in terms of context, "right" is subjective.
Okay, then, what the hell kind of morals do you think don't have little bits like 'Don't steal!' in them? Even the damned Christians got that one right! If theft is not the issue, then what is?
As for 'changing their business model'... theft is no less wrong because someone has a flawed business model. How does that come into play? (Quoting yourself doesn't count as a valid argument - as is not an uncommon occurrence, you've skipped a few essential steps.)
As for 'right' being subjective... either you've missed the part where 'assuming what you're trying to show is not a valid argument' or the part where allowing things like that to be subjective makes nothing but a logical nightmare, so I'll just say that (subjectively, of course) I think that you're completely wrong, your post was another unnecessary diversion into an already-too-beaten and unproductive path, you very badly need a few reasoning touchups, and you're a big stinky poopeyhead with cooties.
Jeff
As for 'changing their business model'... theft is no less wrong because someone has a flawed business model. How does that come into play? (Quoting yourself doesn't count as a valid argument - as is not an uncommon occurrence, you've skipped a few essential steps.)
As for 'right' being subjective... either you've missed the part where 'assuming what you're trying to show is not a valid argument' or the part where allowing things like that to be subjective makes nothing but a logical nightmare, so I'll just say that (subjectively, of course) I think that you're completely wrong, your post was another unnecessary diversion into an already-too-beaten and unproductive path, you very badly need a few reasoning touchups, and you're a big stinky poopeyhead with cooties.
Jeff
i'm going to ignore the 20 things that were beyond ridiculous in your post and cut right to the one that bugged me the most...
so, labels should now think up a new business model that takes into account that everyone is just stealing their content cuz it's easy, rather than trying to do something about that theft at all??
wow... you are delusional on that one my man. give me a shout when Wal-Mart stops prosecuting shop-lifters, and instead comes up with a new business model that allows for shop-lifting to proceed, unimpeded.... cuz i seen me some crappy household items i want but just don't feel "ethically" bound to pay for... c'mon, i mean like, the CEO's not gonna miss a single steak dinner just cuz a few people jack a shiny new Toaster, right?
new business model my ass... you are talking about "something from nothing", and that's called "Magic", not business.
maybe lay-off the "free information" Kool-Aid for a while.
Egan, your words have crystallized my thoughts exACTly.... i couldn't improve on that statement if i were paid to.
I'm just glad that I'm not the only one suspicious of that stuff... I expect a few crackpot things from him every once in a while, but... that was like the crazy hobo who thinks that radios control his mind coming to the street corner with pamphlets and a Powerpoint presentation.
Jeff
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
Yeah, he's also ignoring the bit where *all of those have been broken and are not an issue at all*.
EDIT: In fairness I should say that all that have been tried have been broken, but that goes without saying and still deflates that paragraph enough for our purposes.
Jeff
EDIT: In fairness I should say that all that have been tried have been broken, but that goes without saying and still deflates that paragraph enough for our purposes.
Jeff
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
I quoted myself to show you that I said something that you accused that I had not said, it was as simple as that.
maybe you should take a look at the standard of societies objective morality and look at how we assume that everyone has the same morality. This is just highly untrue, if everyone all believed that murder, violent crimes, theft, scams and many other injustices were wrong, crime would not exist. We make the assumption that moral is objective, but upon reviewing much of the newer theories on subjective morality, including a few models from Dawkins, the reality of right and wrong being subjective to an individual becomes seen. When you realize that not everybody feels that it is wrong to steel or harm others, you will realize this, and at the same time, will give up their faith in humanity.
Yes businesses should come up with a new business model, look at how to combat with theft stores began placing products with magnetic strip and adding metal detector in their entrances, as well as camera, not only does it impede theft by intimidation, it also makes it easier for thieves to be caught. The same should go for intellectual rights, labels have the theft strip on the in store albums, they should make their defense mechanism to prevent the product from being stolen digitally, and there is technology for that, they just don't use it. Because I realize that the morality of theft IS subjective, that people will always steal regardless of the consequences, therefor, if theft will never stop, businesses should protect their assets every way possible, if they don't, its on them for trusting humanity to do the "right thing."
sometimes i will type up posts like this, but then i remember that it's just useless to post because, really, there is no getting through. They will always come up with some bullshit response about how they are poor and need to spend their money on food, or about how music isn't like a toaster maaaaaaaan!
why don't we stop making music completely and see what the they do?
better yet, even if the government does stop the majority of piracy, these dumbass 'pirates' are not going to write letters to their representatives or congressmen complaining about their freedom and right to steal music and/or movies. all they will do is go on a forum or a blog and bitch and whine about it until their lazy ass fucking fingers fall off.
Do you just not know how a real logical argument *works*?
I said that you hadn't *justified* something - flatly stating something is not the same as a justification or proof at all!
As far as
I hardly know where to begin. People do things that they feel is wrong *all the time*. That doesn't change what morality is! The fact that someone might murder someone, and even feel justified in doing so, doesn't change the fact that a 'system of morality' that does not respect the life and rights of others is *a complete failure*! If you're going to state that morality exists entirely in the minds of those acting, then you've missed not only the points made by Dawkins but just about *every reasonable argument about our responsibilities as thinking beings that could ever have taken place*! Finally, this still doesn't justify the actual point being discussed - you're just rushing through misinterpretations of arguments from authority and handwaving away any actual substance that a discussion about morality could have.
You can't properly quote or cite sources, keep on track, tell the difference between 'stating' and 'proving', or even keep your subjects and articles straight. You really need to get a few things sorted out before pretending that you'll get somewhere here.
Jeff
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
http://atheistethicist.blogspot.com/2006/05/subjective-morality.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta-ethics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-realism
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmd-cxpm568&feature=related[/ame]
I think I have quoted enough. Some of the articles are against my standpoint and prove so by the use of opinionated words that shows which was the author was swaying.
with the fact that I deny an objective morality I know that some people will have different opinions on what is write and wrong, and every person will be different. Yes some people will do things they know is wrong and at the same time, some people will do things they think is right, but general society says isn't. With that in mind I know that crime will never stop, and I know the world will never be perfect, nor peaceful and that we should take steps to protect ourselves rather than hope the best of humanity (in my opinion).
As some of you have been getting to, I repeat myself, in my own morality, I do not steal, nor cause any harm to others, including all humans and non humans, and financial entities, however given my standpoint I do not approve or condone theft as well as any other crime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta-ethics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-realism
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmd-cxpm568&feature=related[/ame]
I think I have quoted enough. Some of the articles are against my standpoint and prove so by the use of opinionated words that shows which was the author was swaying.
with the fact that I deny an objective morality I know that some people will have different opinions on what is write and wrong, and every person will be different. Yes some people will do things they know is wrong and at the same time, some people will do things they think is right, but general society says isn't. With that in mind I know that crime will never stop, and I know the world will never be perfect, nor peaceful and that we should take steps to protect ourselves rather than hope the best of humanity (in my opinion).
As some of you have been getting to, I repeat myself, in my own morality, I do not steal, nor cause any harm to others, including all humans and non humans, and financial entities, however given my standpoint I do not approve or condone theft as well as any other crime.
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