US and UK vs. Piracy: Have you read this?

[SimonTaddio_Qc]

if by "the good 'ol records" you mean records like The Dark Side Of The Moon, and Night At The Opera and the like... then yes, they are indeed behind us... and will stay that way with current attitudes. and we are all the poorer for it.

anyway, now in this last post you are changing your rhetoric a bit, and i find i'm not disagreeing with you as much.... is this because i'm understanding you better?? or because you've toned it down a bit?

i think the latter. i'm sure you'll disagree though. it seems to be a project for you.

for the record i've maintained a position for the last few years, that the industry DOES need to change in some way, but that this change will NOT include free music for everyone, and if you had any history here, rather than popping in and making assumptions, you'd have known that already. stick around a while.

By record, I meant actual records, vinyls, or whatever you american may call that big, usually black thing, about 1' in diameter wich was impossible (then) to rip and put into a computer (tho the idea of having a vinyl tray in my computer is kinda funny ) There will never be another Dark Side of the Moon, but that's a whole other story too, lol.
And yeah, I've tone down a bit because I felt you did too, and I think you get my point better too.
I never said anything about free music for everyone, nor anything as such, otherwise I'd have to give guitar lessons the rest of my life, wich I don't find that attractive as a job as doing my own thing (tho lessons are still pretty much my bread and butter, so...)

but being paid for the work, and not the result of it, makes one a craftsman.. not an artist.

One simply wouldn't exist without the other, and the line is not always a clear one between the two.

These discussions, like the Apple Vs Windows and iPhone vs Android and N64 vs PS1

Damn, I wanna play Goldeneye so bad now!

 

[James Murphy]

One simply wouldn't exist without the other, and the line is not always a clear one between the two.

no.. it's pretty clear.

a craftsman will build you a wall... but an artist will paint you a mural on it.

a craftsman strives to reach an objective level of workmanship based on utilitarian fundamentals... an artist strives to communicate, stir emotions, and touch the untouchable.

craftsmanship is about the usefulness of the thing being crafted... art is about emotional reactions. a practical expectation being met vs. a visceral reaction that takes you by surprise.

craftsmanship is measurable, quantifiable, and objective.... art is subjective, difficult to quantify at best, and evokes intangibles that can't be measured. i can tell you exactly how many square feet my driveway is... but can you tell me exactly how much awe you felt the first time you really sat back with headphones and immersed yourself in DSOTM?

bottom line, if it's more about utility than inspiration, it's craft, not art.

if you truly equate craft with art, then you're missing both the beauty of art, and the pragmatism of craft.

craftsmen and artists need each other, as you said, and there's some crossover for sure, but saying the line isn't clear.. well it's not that it's always untrue to say that... but it's rare enough that when it happens, you may as well just call it art, because it would have to be very close for the line to blur in the slightest.

here's the final litmus test... if you can make a living doing what you do, day in and day out.. knowing exactly what you'll earn each week/month/year, and have benefits and insurance and you do the same exact things each day... well you are either a worker-drone or a craftsman.... if you work in fits of inspiration and get paid a little bit only if someone finds it worthy to invest in you and your work, and only ever make decent money from your efforts if enough people agree... then you are probably an artist.

not so hard to work out really.


man, all this talk of Arts & Crafts... imma hungry for some Cracker Barrel ya'll!

 

[ahjteam]

Just out of curiocity, why do these threads always end up as such heated discussions between Murphy and the rest of the world?

 

[JeffTD]

Because the rest of the world is usually retarded as fuck.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Just out of curiocity, why do these threads always end up as such heated discussions between Murphy and the rest of the world?

Seems like Murphy is so passionate about it that he get near offended to tears/getting physical. Him and a few others get really worked up on certain topics because there opinions are pretty extreme, not to say its a bad thing.

But IMO, the extremes of both sides are a little over the top, but then again for most issues I am staged mostly center.

 

[James Murphy]

Just out of curiocity, why do these threads always end up as such heated discussions between Murphy and the rest of the world?

well, just out of curiosity mind you, why do you regularly pop in to threads and make spurious comments without reading them all the way though? did you not see the numerous posts by Egan and JBroll also debating heavily on the same side of the discussion as me?

also ... what in the world is wrong with me discussing a subject that i am knowledgeable about? is that not why i am here?

finally... what is your point exactly? either join the discussion or don't. it's a simple as that. i'm sorry if your concept of a forum doesn't involve any discussions at all that might become polarized, but that's just too bad because that's the way the world is, and forums are reflections of the world; they are often heated, polarized, contentious, and xenophobic. and also just like the world, the mood can sometimes be helpful, sharing, generous, and full of solidarity.

it's both extremes, and everywhere in between, all at the same time.., but i've had quite enough guys like you popping in to threads you are not otherwise participating in and making snarky remarks. so, what do you think is more useless... me and someone else engaging in what may be heated discussion, but is also very likely revelatory to those who are interested to learn something from either side of it... or you and the others like you that have nothing to contribute at all other than hit-and-run criticism of others who are engaging in one of the main reasons forums exist in the first place; discussion. ?

maybe you'd like me better if i never had any opinion about the things i've been doing and involved in for 20 years, and just handed out presets and samples instead, eh? you'd stand a better chance of shitting a gold nugget my friend.

 

[James Murphy]

Seems like Murphy is so passionate about it that he get near offended to tears/getting physical. Him and a few others get really worked up on certain topics because there opinions are pretty extreme, not to say its a bad thing.

i guess you didn't read all my posts either.. i guess i am going to have to start writing my posts as though i was an author, writing about "me", writing on a forum.. so that i can include descriptions of the mood i'm in or the state of my demeanor.

i can only say it one way... if you don't read it, then the problem is with you, not me.

i am not angry, not even "stirred up"... i'm editing and laughing my ass off at a Seth Rogan comedy in between typing my posts... any mood or demeanor you are putting on me is your issue, not mine. it reflects how you think, not how i behave. i write passionately about things i know about and have an opinion about... that in no way is informative of my mood as i type.

you know, you guys are great... you can read mood and behavior of someone from across the country, or the world... someone who's not even using many "curse" words (even though using them in no way denotes anger, it's just a part of speach), or exaggerated punctuation, or ALL CAPS, and who is even making jokes along the way... and from that you can decide that they are angry, crying (lol, that one really made me smile), or even being physically demonstrative.

the courage of one's convictions does not make him angry, and forums are for discussion. until you can figure those two things out, you suck at the internetz.

 

[JBroll]

TheWinterSnow... between revising history, being convinced that people evolved to smoke pot, and tossing out objectivity, you're in no position to say anything about 'extreme' opinions.

Jeff

 

[James Murphy]

man i wish we could IM in here, and they would be transcribed onto the forum pages for all to see.... the convo between myself and "the jeffs" going on right now is priceless.... god how we love youse guise!

 

[TheWinterSnow]

TheWinterSnow... between revising history, being convinced that people evolved to smoke pot, and tossing out objectivity, you're in no position to say anything about 'extreme' opinions.

Jeff

Im too buzzed right now to give a shit!

 

[James Murphy]

fuggit, i'll just copy/paste

2:10 AM

James Murphy: i am typing to you now
James Murphy: i don't like things
James Murphy: i disagree with things

Jeff Dunne: james, i want to stop you right there...
Jeff Dunne: from those two sentences, i think...
Jeff Dunne: are you crying?

James Murphy: ha ha ha

Jeff Dunne: i think you're crying

James Murphy: you NAILED IT!

Jeff Dunne: so, please release your deahtgrip on that cat
Jeff Dunne: it doesnt deserve it!

James Murphy: well, if you're really smart, you can tell from my "ha ha ha" just then that i'm smashing thngs in my studio
James Murphy: and trying to shove the TV remote up my ass

Jeff Dunne: that's not even anger, that's just fun!

James Murphy: lol

 

[JBroll]

Im too buzzed right now to give a shit!

Just in case you wear out the one you've been using in the last few posts...

Jeff

 

[Ol'Dirty Bastard]

Consumers will pay what they feel is fair for any good or service. Piracy is detrimental to the artists, investors, and ultimately the consumer (those who chose to pay for the services/goods and those who pirate the material) this is a fact understood by the VAST majority, even those defending piracy. Yes, even you random musician claiming to make a good living despite having a small fan base and your material pirated. People are selfish, however, and will continue to find means to obtain these goods. It is impossible to restrict access to pirated files, etc without serious censorship of public internet content, which is tragic (even then new means and alternative sites in which to share this content in would surely arise). Comparing piracy of digital media to theft of material goods implementing the "morals" argument is invalid. This media can be readily replicated in seconds (by anyone) to an infinite amount of copies. I feel the true problem lies in pricing. There is simply too much content and competition in the market today to justify the pricing on SOME of this media (again, easily replicated at near non-existing costs) which leads to a "standard" pricing structure for the content as a whole. Take into consideration the pricing of a single released by a top 10 artist and that of a small (in terms of fan base) "insert new meme"metal/core band here, they are the same generally ($.99 on itunes is the norm if I'm not mistaken). Competition as well as this shift in consumer behavior, people being used to downloading and pirating the content etc, have driven the demand for legal content to nothing. Terminating a few blogs and fileshare sites will not rectify this.

 

[James Murphy]

hey 'ol dirty... i think i really only have some issue with your last sentence, in that i don't think that they'll stop at just a few blogs, or that blogs will be the only avenue pursued, but who knows. we'll have to see.

 

[JMarz]

i guess you didn't read all my posts either.. i guess i am going to have to start writing my posts as though i was an author, writing about "me", writing on a forum.. so that i can include descriptions of the mood i'm in or the state of my demeanor.

i can only say it one way... if you don't read it, then the problem is with you, not me.

i am not angry, not even "stirred up"... i'm editing and laughing my ass off at a Seth Rogan comedy in between typing my posts... any mood or demeanor you are putting on me is your issue, not mine. it reflects how you think, not how i behave. i write passionately about things i know about and have an opinion about... that in no way is informative of my mood as i type.

you know, you guys are great... you can read mood and behavior of someone from across the country, or the world... someone who's not even using many "curse" words (even though using them in no way denotes anger, it's just a part of speach), or exaggerated punctuation, or ALL CAPS, and who is even making jokes along the way... and from that you can decide that they are angry, crying (lol, that one really made me smile), or even being physically demonstrative.

the courage of one's convictions does not make him angry, and forums are for discussion. until you can figure those two things out, you suck at the internetz.

I fucking love you.

This would be sigged, quoted, and hung on a plaque on the fucking wall, if it weren't as big.

 

[Melb_shredder]

I guess I'll have to agree on the MOST part with James. A lot of guys in here really just don't get the implications of piracy on the whole do they??? Let me narrow down 1 example for you... I work in Video Game retail part time... and u have NO idea how many people walk in with their kids and their R4 card in there DS', or the people with chipped Xbox etc... and it hurts the lower people most. Because the developers etc, they get paid by the distributer, the distributer then ups the price on cost of a game, and then we get allocated less hours per week in our store to cover costs. That's life ladies and gents. Just like if poor movie sales in cinema/ department store etc probably affect the jobs of the workers there. And that's just on this end....

I download music, i openly admit it, but if I enjoy it, then i go out and buy the cd the first chance I get... hence why i own a good collection of cd's! I'm not sure on James' thoughts on what I do, but meh, i don't think his issue is sampling a cd, more so the blatent disregard for what has gone into it, and how as a consumer you acknowledge that by buying the cd and supporting the living of the person who put all that effort into creating that product, so that you, t3h intwerwebz whores can download it... etc! Yes piracy hurts! At the same time, James, I have a question for you! Without piracy, some of my favourite bands would never have been discovered... suffice to say, i have scoured the internet to purchase there actual cd's, but what are your thoughts on when you physically cant get a copy in your country????
I know some people overseas are pirating our E.P and I don't care because it would be WAY to hard to send out so many copies ourselves etc with no european distribution and so on...

I wouldn't mind your thoughts on that

 

[findingthesound]

Ok guys some good points, some good debates which can educate us all, even if as always internet is pretty diffcult to keep discussions courteous (? don't know how to translate better)?.

I did not want to have this kind of discussion about piracy once again (I feel as sorry as you Dan), I just wanted to keep sneapers informed about what is going on in the world that could impact music and film. If you don't care just don't read!


So here's some other news i missed:

(Reuters) - U.S. authorities seized nine websites on Wednesday, accusing them of movie piracy by offering free access to movies such as "Toy Story 3".
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65T6OR20100630

IFPI Sends DMCA Notice To Google Demanding It Stop Linking To The Pirate Bay... Entirely:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100622/0908079920.shtml

Anti-Piracy Group Stuns The World With Torrent Site Massacre:
http://torrentfreak.com/anti-piracy-group-stuns-the-world-with-torrent-site-massacre-100715/

Court Bans The Pirate Bay From The Netherlands:
http://torrentfreak.com/court-bans-the-pirate-bay-from-the-netherlands-100717/

but Dutch ISPs Don’t Have to Censor The Pirate Bay:
http://torrentfreak.com/dutch-isps-dont-have-to-censor-the-pirate-bay-100719/

Thousands More BitTorrent Users To Be Sued In The U.S.:
http://torrentfreak.com/thousands-more-bittorrent-users-to-be-sued-in-the-u-s-100718/

 

[findingthesound]

Without piracy, some of my favourite bands would never have been discovered... suffice to say, i have scoured the internet to purchase there actual cd's, but what are your thoughts on when you physically cant get a copy in your country????
I know some people overseas are pirating our E.P and I don't care because it would be WAY to hard to send out so many copies ourselves etc with no european distribution and so on...

I wouldn't mind your thoughts on that

You don't need piracy to discover new band, if bands let some music on their myspace or other website. The internet is here to stay so all the access to music around the world will remains, but with more control for the band.
And you can provide a download for your EP, and maybe charge just 1$ to pay the cost of files hosting.

You don't have to go back to physical copies only!

All that Internet improved will remain.

 

[SimonTaddio_Qc]

Im too buzzed right now to give a shit!

Ok guys some good points, some good debates which can educate us all, even if as always internet is pretty diffcult to keep discussions courteous (? don't know how to translate better)?.

I did not want to have this kind of discussion about piracy once again (I feel as sorry as you Dan), I just wanted to keep sneapers informed about what is going on in the world that could impact music and film. If you don't care just don't read!


So here's some other news i missed:

(Reuters) - U.S. authorities seized nine websites on Wednesday, accusing them of movie piracy by offering free access to movies such as "Toy Story 3".
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65T6OR20100630

IFPI Sends DMCA Notice To Google Demanding It Stop Linking To The Pirate Bay... Entirely:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100622/0908079920.shtml

Anti-Piracy Group Stuns The World With Torrent Site Massacre:
http://torrentfreak.com/anti-piracy-group-stuns-the-world-with-torrent-site-massacre-100715/

Court Bans The Pirate Bay From The Netherlands:
http://torrentfreak.com/court-bans-the-pirate-bay-from-the-netherlands-100717/

but Dutch ISPs Don’t Have to Censor The Pirate Bay:
http://torrentfreak.com/dutch-isps-dont-have-to-censor-the-pirate-bay-100719/

Thousands More BitTorrent Users To Be Sued In The U.S.:
http://torrentfreak.com/thousands-more-bittorrent-users-to-be-sued-in-the-u-s-100718/

Out of curiosity I went on Pirate Bay today (from Canada), and it now advertises to get some sort of program (I don't know what it actually is or does) to spare you from getting "caught" downloading copyrighted content.
There's even a picture of someone in jail and the advertisement says someting like "It could very well be you if you don't have this program"

I'm not a computer geek, so can anyone explain me how they can ban sites from only a couple of country, instead of banning the website in question as a whole? Maybe there's a different website address for each country?

 

[JMarz]

Out of curiosity I went on Pirate Bay today (from Canada), and it now advertises to get some sort of program (I don't know what it actually is or does) to spare you from getting "caught" downloading copyrighted content.
There's even a picture of someone in jail and the advertisement says someting like "It could very well be you if you don't have this program"

I'm not a computer geek, so can anyone explain me how they can ban sites from only a couple of country, instead of banning the website in question as a whole? Maybe there's a different website address for each country?

Very, very curious to look into this. But I can't find it anywhere. Mind sharing?