US Election 2004

Barth Vader said:
You're 100% correct. If anyone will be hurt from the Nader Campaign (which I seriously doubt), it would be Kerry.
In 2000, Nader's percentage of the vote in Oregon was enough to turn the state to Bush. That would have given Gore enough votes to win.
 
Barth Vader said:
I'm just curious...maybe you could humor one of us older, jaded folk.

Why is it that you dislike Bush so much? And I'm talking about credible answers, not things like "Because he's a warmongering cowboy!" It would be interesting to hear a younger person's point of view on this. I just got done with student teaching and it's astounding how many kids hate Bush but don't really know why. My opinion (JUST my opinion!) is that the overall mileau of the public school system has something to do with it.
I'm something of a die-hard liberal, even though I can't vote. On a party level, I dislike him because I don't agree with the Republican philosophy of supporting businesses and business owners, because that pours more money into the upper -middle and upper class people, as opposed to the people who really need more money. Also, I don't like the heavy christian theme some Republicans, Mr. Bush included, like to reference - I don't mind religion in the government, but I strongly object to a preference toward one religion.

On a personal level, I dislike Bush because I simply don't think he's smart enough to do the job. Despite having problems with fluent English, he's not stupid, but neither is he exceptionally smart. I beleive that if it weren't for his last name, he'd be an owner of a car dealership or something of the like. This shows in the war in Iraq. While I don't think he deliberately led us into a war he knew was unjustified, he didn't realize that he was being deceived by the CIA and FBI - a ruse he shouldn't have fallen for. Two years ago, in 7th grade (12 years old) I did a Powerpoint project on Iraq, and came out of it convinced that Saddam had few, if any, WMDs (admittedly, I was probably the third smartest person in the class of 300). Also, I think that withdrawing the UN inspectors so quickly, Going into Iraq without UN or at least NATO approval, and verbally lashing out against countries that refused to back him was very unwise. Worldwide, Bush probably lead bin Laden in popularity only because of India's 800,000 Hindus (who are quite obviously disinclined to like a Muslim fanatic).

However, I do respect Bush's devotion to his principles (even if I believe that they are misguided), his dedication to justice, and his public image/attitude/charisma.
 
I don't think that the CIA and FBI were being deceptive. We really are that bad at intelligence. That's why we spent almost a half-century fighting wars against nationalists who we thought were communists.
 
Hmmmh, intersting topic, though i never visited the US and am not informed like you guys over there.

@metu, Barth: I think you have some really good points there, especially the part about education (which never was more important in the western-, eastern-, first-, second- and third- world) and regenerating energy sources (which will become unbelievably important in the next 50 years, maybe earlier). I think this isn't a exclusively american topic.

@topic: Concerning the election I mainly get my informations from CNN, which isn't the best source, but I think the republicans will get another four years. Correct me if I'm wrong, I think very few american governments were denied a second term, and if than only because of serious national scandals.

For Europe the war on Iraq would have been enough to elect another government, I guess. But that is because we had wars in Europe for centuries and most of them directly at our doorsteps, which is a bit different than sending troops on the other side of the world.
For my taste the Bush government went to war too light-hearted, but I became a perfect pacifist by living in a city where every now and again a team will show up to dig a two meter long bomb out of the ground, while the neighbourhood is told to leave their windows open, in case the thing decides to explode after a 50 year sleep.

Sorry, got a bit off-topic.

So, Bush will get re-elected I'd say. And I don't have a problem with that, as long as the gevernment decides to work closer together with the UN in their second term.
 
Actually it's not that rare for a President to not get re-elected, just look at George Bush Sr. and Jimmy Carter Jr., who each served 4 years. They were beaten by 8 year term presidents Ronald Regan and William Clinton. Prior to that most of the Presidents of the 20th Century were re-elected if they didn't die or get impeached first. http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/index2.html

I don't know that the Bush administration will work closer with the UN in the future. The attitude of most Republicans is that they don't care about the UN and don't think the US needs to listen to what the UN says. My neighbor says the UN is worthless and should have joined in on the bombing of Iraq and help us take down North Korea. As with most of these brain washed Republicans, when my wife questioned her about this, she asked if my wife preferred Communisim....republicans are just as dumb as Democrats, no wonder only like 55% of American's even vote.


@topic: Concerning the election I mainly get my informations from CNN, which isn't the best source, but I think the republicans will get another four years. Correct me if I'm wrong, I think very few american governments were denied a second term, and if than only because of serious national scandals.

For Europe the war on Iraq would have been enough to elect another government, I guess. But that is because we had wars in Europe for centuries and most of them directly at our doorsteps, which is a bit different than sending troops on the other side of the world.
For my taste the Bush government went to war too light-hearted, but I became a perfect pacifist by living in a city where every now and again a team will show up to dig a two meter long bomb out of the ground, while the neighbourhood is told to leave their windows open, in case the thing decides to explode after a 50 year sleep.

Sorry, got a bit off-topic.

So, Bush will get re-elected I'd say. And I don't have a problem with that, as long as the gevernment decides to work closer together with the UN in their second term.[/QUOTE]
 
thespectralsorrows said:
...republicans are just as dumb as Democrats, no wonder only like 55% of American's even vote.

Yep, I was quite shocked, when I heard about that.
Is it true that you have to go to a local election officer to be permitted to vote, and he can deny that if he wants to?
If that is the case, I'd say thats a rather... err difficult way to practice Democracy, isn't it?
Anyway the recent european election had a similar result. I still don't get why people don't use the rights, generations died for to achieve them. Even if one never completely understands how politics exactly work, it is still easy enough to know what you want and vote according to that. But that obviously is the wrong sermon to the wrong people, isn't it?
;)
 
i too, think bush will get re-elected (he could always take credit for the economys natural tendancy to fluxuate up and down - the current state beig up mind you!) plus more stuff like, "we found out more terrorists . . . stopped nuke warfare . . . watched iraq fall" stuff. and from what ive heard of kerry, he doesnt do anything, he repeats everything bush says (i havnt heard much though, so im open to cange in view). many people are also saying hes pretty psycho.

i dont like either of 'em though. all (ok, most) politicians are greedy liars
 
Kosh: If you register for Selective Service (the draft), and have a home address, you can register to vote. Good point about all the people who have given their lives to give us that right.

---------

Neither Republicans nor Democrats are brainwashed. There is a serious problem on both the left and the right, though, of closed-minded people. A lot of people have isolated themselves by only reading, listening to, and watching media with which they agree.
 
and there are no unbiased opinions that are being put out towards people as well as there is no real way to know what 'information' is authentic or not.
 
I have three main concerns: the immigration issue, affirmative action, and foriegn aid.

I think Bush has fought hard against terrorism in the world so I'll commend him on that.

But where is he on MY issues? I think he's afraid to delve to far into any of them because they're too controversial.

Still, if it's between Bush and Kerry, which it is, I guess I'll re-elect Bush. I wish he'd get tough on border policy though!
 
kitty6505 said:
VOTE FOR BUSH/CHENEY 'O4....period

Indeed.



Captain_Steel said:
I have three main concerns: the immigration issue, affirmative action, and foriegn aid.

I think Bush has fought hard against terrorism in the world so I'll commend him on that.

But where is he on MY issues? I think he's afraid to delve to far into any of them because they're too controversial.

Still, if it's between Bush and Kerry, which it is, I guess I'll re-elect Bush. I wish he'd get tough on border policy though!



I think Bush would be a bit tougher on border policy if it didn't hurt him in the polls. His job IS to get re-elected. We'll see how this pans out in the next 4 years after he wins (especially after the whole "Amnesty" debacle).

Affirmative action, I think, has reached a point where it's out of the president's control. It's up to the American people (and the media) to change their collective tune on that.

Now...foreign aid.............sigh.......no comment. I feel the same as you.


Besides...the more important matter...what do you think Bush listens to? Some of his fellow Texans? Nile? Pissing Razors? Or does he listen to the band Bush? And what do you think Kerry listens to?


Yanni?


ahh..sorry...had to stick that in... ;)
 
Barth Vader said:
Indeed.




I think Bush would be a bit tougher on border policy if it didn't hurt him in the polls. His job IS to get re-elected. We'll see how this pans out in the next 4 years after he wins (especially after the whole "Amnesty" debacle).

Affirmative action, I think, has reached a point where it's out of the president's control. It's up to the American people (and the media) to change their collective tune on that.

Now...foreign aid.............sigh.......no comment. I feel the same as you.


Besides...the more important matter...what do you think Bush listens to? Some of his fellow Texans? Nile? Pissing Razors? Or does he listen to the band Bush? And what do you think Kerry listens to?


Yanni?


ahh..sorry...had to stick that in... ;)

I could see Bush listening to something like Death's early releases. And then maybe toning it down with a little Mercyful Fate.

Kerry probably listens to Green Day, and Blink 182.
 
FauxPerspicacity said:
and there are no unbiased opinions that are being put out towards people as well as there is no real way to know what 'information' is authentic or not.
Yup. That's why it's so important to use as many diverse sources as possible.

Does Bush giving $1 billion to "faith based initiatives" bother anyone? It sure bothers me.
 
Me three.

Government has no business supporting one faith over another. In fact, Government needs to stay away from religion entirely. "Church, you go play over there, and State, you play on the other side of the constitutional fence.
 
Our government is based on a good deal of Judeo Christian ideals. You can't totoally remove religion from our government since our leaders have based their laws on their religion.

Off topic but it's not my fault.