EtherForBreakfast
Hamster Style
- Jun 19, 2005
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Tachy said:I can't believe that Nevermore DHIADW was recorded with the 75s, is true??
:zombie: :zombie:
i would like to know, as well...
sounds:zombie: a bit
strange 
V30'S vs G12T-75's
- Thread starter FULLMETALSPEEDO
- Start date
i would like to know, as well...
sounds:zombie: a bit
strange 
Brett - K A L I S I A
Dreaded Moderator
This may be a silly question, but would v30's be able to make an amp any louder?? Or handle the amps power in a better way? I used a marshall 4x12 with v30's in them last night at a gig, and im convinced my amp had way more headroom. It's a single rec, so 50 watts, and it always seems to start breaking up the louder you push it, but this wasn't the case with the v30's. They were really crisp and tight.... and really loud!?
SickBoy
Croatian Panzer division
Smalex said:
From Celestion site:
V30 - Sensitivity 100dB
75 - Sensitivity 97dB
See, this means that V30 has apparently twice the loudness when compared to 75. To gain 3dB in sound pressure you need to double the power, so it's quite reasonable why your amp had more headroom with V30's - you didn't push it's output as hard!
Thanks so much sick boy, that's put my mind at ease. I thought i was going mental. Just gota find me some v30's now hehe.
SPL in decibels is a logarithmic scale. Every 10 dB increase indicates a tenfold boost in power. So on this scale, a doubling of power is indicated by a 3.0102999566398119521373889472449 dB increase (which rounds much more simply to 3). The equation for the intensity difference in dB for two sounds, given the power ratio of those sounds, is I=10log(P2/P1) , where P2/P1 is the ratio of power between the two sounds. So, it follows that a sound twice as loud as another sound would be represented by the equation I=10log(2). Solving that equation will yield the number above.
Sorry, Burny, but Sickboy was correct.
Edit: you both were right, because you're talking about different things. Power in sound is the square of the pressure. Mathematically, if p represents pressure and P represents power, P=p^2. So, I=10log(P2/P1)=10log(p2^2/p1^2)=2*10log(p2/p1)=20log(p2/p1). Therefore, a doubling of the pressure will result in a 6dB increase (Burny was right). A doubling of power, though, will still result in a 3dB increase (Sickboy was also right).
Sorry, Burny, but Sickboy was correct.
Edit: you both were right, because you're talking about different things. Power in sound is the square of the pressure. Mathematically, if p represents pressure and P represents power, P=p^2. So, I=10log(P2/P1)=10log(p2^2/p1^2)=2*10log(p2/p1)=20log(p2/p1). Therefore, a doubling of the pressure will result in a 6dB increase (Burny was right). A doubling of power, though, will still result in a 3dB increase (Sickboy was also right).
No, that's a good point. It's a tricky issue when you get into loudness though, since that's a psychological perception rather than a physically measurable property. It differs from person to person, but generally psychoacousticians agree that a 10dB increase in a given sound is perceived as twice as "loud". To confuse this issue even more, though, we perceive loudness differently at different frequencies, and this frequency response perception changes at different SPLs (the Fletcher-Munson curves). So as far as loudness goes, there's really no easy way to judge the loudness of a T75 against V30, especially considering that their frequency responses differ. The only measurements we can take are related to actual intensity, not perceived loudness.
Shit, yours and mine both, man. It doesn't help that there are a ton of different ways to measure essentially the same thing, and there's no real standard. I've seen power relationships used the most in these measurements, but that's by no means the only way to judge intensity/volume/loudness/whatever. And you've apparently seen pressure used more, and other people other things. And I'm going to shut up about it now and have a beer. 
SickBoy
Croatian Panzer division
Okay, Burny has a point...
With "twice the loudness" I was meaning to say "twice the power", sorry - a typo.
But it seems you sorted it out yourselves after all...
To 11?
With "twice the loudness" I was meaning to say "twice the power", sorry - a typo.
But it seems you sorted it out yourselves after all...
Suicide_As_Alibi said:If I want things louder I turn the volume up
To 11?
Suicide_As_Alibi said:If I want things louder I turn the volume up
Hear, hear. That's the only thing that really matters.
I've got two Marshall 1960 Slant Cabs. One is a 1960 Vintage with V30s and the other is loaded with G12T-75s. I've got a ton of heads to go along with them. A Laney VH100R, Peavey 5150II, Marshall DSL 100, Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier Solo (early 90s model), Line 6 Flextone HD, peavey classic 120/120 power amp, JMP-1 preamp, Peavey Rockmaster preamp, Line 6 POD PRO head, Pod XT and a modded ADA MP-1 mod 3.666.
I owned the v30 cab first and thought it sounded amazing until my friend brought his Marshall cab over with G12t-75s. He also has a Laney VH100R. His Laney through the G12t-75s made my Laney through V30s sound extremely harsh and shrill using the exact same settings. I liked his tone so much I bought the second Marshall cab with G12t-75s. They have a much warmer, darker sound.
Every one of my amps, perhaps with the exception of the Triple Rec sound FAR better with the G12t-75s. I have tried every amp I have through both cabs extensively. The V30s lack a lot of low end in comparison and again, have a really harsh mid to high end.
When cranked up, the G12t-75s destroy. They really crunch up a lot better and remain focused.
Of course this is just my perception and a lot of this is a matter of taste.
I owned the v30 cab first and thought it sounded amazing until my friend brought his Marshall cab over with G12t-75s. He also has a Laney VH100R. His Laney through the G12t-75s made my Laney through V30s sound extremely harsh and shrill using the exact same settings. I liked his tone so much I bought the second Marshall cab with G12t-75s. They have a much warmer, darker sound.
Every one of my amps, perhaps with the exception of the Triple Rec sound FAR better with the G12t-75s. I have tried every amp I have through both cabs extensively. The V30s lack a lot of low end in comparison and again, have a really harsh mid to high end.
When cranked up, the G12t-75s destroy. They really crunch up a lot better and remain focused.
Of course this is just my perception and a lot of this is a matter of taste.
The guitar sound of DHIADW for me is the best nevermore guitar sound and I don't know why Andy prefered th Gt 75.
I have a cabinet with this gt 75 and I have it from 6 years now, I think it sound good with marshall amps that have nasal sound and a lot of mid.
With the Cobra at this time I'll change it with the v30 becouse I need more mid and presence in a live situation.
The Cobra have a lot of mid but the mid of marshall is very different for my opinion.
I have a cabinet with this gt 75 and I have it from 6 years now, I think it sound good with marshall amps that have nasal sound and a lot of mid.
With the Cobra at this time I'll change it with the v30 becouse I need more mid and presence in a live situation.
The Cobra have a lot of mid but the mid of marshall is very different for my opinion.
Suicide_As_Alibi said:If I want things louder I turn the volume up
/ignorance
Steve
that's the problem for me though
My 50w single rec just seems to start breaking up through the 75's as i turn it up further... Especially battling against the rest of the band.. This wasn't the case with the V30's, and it just *seemed* louder. I could actually FEEL my guitar behind me and not just hear it. I didn't mean to make people's heads start hurting with all the maths hehe. Thanks for everyone's input though, much appreciated.Smalex said:that's the problem for me though
Ah, in that case then: Turn everyone else down!
Steve
