Very sad......

[Barking Pumpkin]

I'm from the US, but from what I was reading in the topic about this on the PoS boards, in Sweden a fingerprint is a bigger deal than in the US. In the US, it's not really a big deal and used for lots of things, but in Sweden it's like just used on prisoners.

And metal71....I see what you mean.....but I don't see how it's warranted. To point out, it's not like he's putting this in big letters on the front of his website "lolz America is stoopid" or something, this was from a Swedish site and has been translated, just from an interview. It's his choice, and he made it, I don't see why you feel the need to "beat him within an inch of his life" over it. Would you feel the same way about it if they wanted a sample of his DNA? That's what it seems to me fingerprints are like in Sweden from reading the messageboard topic.

And in terms of just recent events, I respect Daniel Gildenlow more than Dave Mustaine because while Mustaine uses the "have your cake and eat it too" by going to other countries and kicking bands off bills in their own country, it's a monetary loss for Daniel Gildenlow, so he obvious is strong enough in his convictions that he's willing to give up playing for his fans and the monetary support from a tour.

 

[metal71]

Damn. I'm sorry, but now I'm just fucking pissed and can't stop my rant. I just can't believe it. The government does something totally rational to PROTECT YOU, and all you give a shit about is not being able to see some fucking band?!?!?!!?!?!?

Don't bitch about the rules, rather question Daniel from PoS about why he objects to something so minor. I've said ever since 9/11, I'd welcome every gov't agency to parade through my house and belongings to their full satisfaction anytime they want. Then they'd see that I, like most Americans, have nothing to hide. But if they did that everywhere, say for just 1 year, imagine all the would-be terrorists, illegal aliens, child abusers, meth labs, and fugitive criminals we'd rid ourselves of. Imagine being in the group that has nothing to hide, then waking up to a new country that is free of the very dregs that are destroying it day by day. Bring it on.

Incidentally, speaking of illegals, it is still harder to clear customs at both the Canadian and Mexican borders. And you bitch that America is just starting to do what most other countries have been doing all along????

Time to get out of your parents' basement and see the world. Then and only then will you fully be able to appreciate what you already have right here at home.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

I've said ever since 9/11, I'd welcome every gov't agency to parade through my house and belongings to their full satisfaction anytime they want. Then they'd see that I, like most Americans, have nothing to hide. But if they did that everywhere, say for just 1 year, imagine all the would-be terrorists, illegal aliens, child abusers, meth labs, and fugitive criminals we'd rid ourselves of. Imagine being in the group that has nothing to hide, then waking up to a new country that is free of the very dregs that are destroying it day by day. Bring it on.

You do know their are countries that do that, right? Dictatorships, communist countries, etc. I think an important line is how much freedom we're willing to sacrifice to "protect our freedom." Because sure, we could have all kinds of things that would maybe give us more security, but we wouldn't be much of a free country then. And if you check out some of the other non-Democracy countries that have those kinds of policies, they have the same kind of attacks, deaths, etc.

 

[guardian26]

Hey, great for Daniel to stick to his ideals. That said, I am all for fingerprinting people. Prints are used for all kinds of business licenses, passports, arrested people, schoolbus drivers, etc. It's the best way to minimize people slipping through the cracks.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

Yeah, that's what someone was saying on the PoS boards, and it sounds like that's not the way it is in Sweden....

I'll link you guys to the topic tomorrow.

 

[ProgMetalFan]

Cheers to Daniel for standing up for his principles.

 

[Yngvai X]

Good for Daniel. I may not like all of PoS's music, but Daniel is one of the most admirable artists in metal today. No one else cares as much as he does about what they believe. People only give a shit when its convenient for them to. Everything he says about that is fucking true. As far as the issue at hand...maybe he is being overly paranoid, and maybe not. Thats not for me to judge. I'd just like some detractors to try to put themselves in the shoes of a foreigner coming into the US and having to do that. If you really think a measure such as finger printing makes that big of a difference as far as safety then you're just falling for an illusion. Let me ask you this, how would YOU feel if you visited Iran and were fingerprinted?

Sucks for US PoS fans tho...

 

[Dr_Metal]

Ya know.... It looks like the Muslim/Palestinian propaganda machine has done its work well where Daniel is concerned.... Regime???? Isreali secret police!?!?!? Gimme a fuckin break.... Perhaps mister bleeding heart should dig alot deeper and get both sides of the story.... From what I understand Europe really only gets the Muslim/Palestinian (I.E. - We are the poor victims, they stole our land, etc) side of the story.... Although I must say that anybody with half a fucking brain should realize that sending kids to blow themselves up and kill innocents is fuckin wrong....

So ya think what I just said has nothing to do with this???? It positively reeks of it.... Why else would he use words like "Regime" when referring to the Bush administration??? Same fucking thing the terrorists and alot of the muslim world have said about our current leaders.... And just what does a Swedish national have to worry about the Isreali police for??? The answer: THEY DONT!!!! Unless they are engaged in activity against the state of Isreal.... or have been brainwashed by propoganda....

I can respect Daniel for sticking to his guns and doing what he thinks is right but he obviously isnt as intelligent as I thought he was if he is so easily deceived....

Fingerprints!?!?!? As brainwashed as he appears to be hes lucky they didnt want to give him a full anal probe!!!!

And another thing.... this thing about not singling out arabs after 911 for security checks.... BULLSHIT!!!! If they are coming into the country (which is another sore subject) then they should expect to be searched after what happened.... Its fucking common sense!!!! If the attack were carried out by white country western fans I would expect any white person that looked like a redneck to be checked.... It's that simple.... But dont give me this "Please dont make it harder for us to come in and try to destroy you" crap....

OK.... I'm done ranting.... For now....

 

[Dr_Metal]

let me ask you this, how would YOU feel if you visited Iran and were fingerprinted?

First of all.... if I were going to take a vacation, I sure as hell would not go someplace like Iran.... Secondly, There is the very high possibility that Iran would not even let you in....

And thirdly.... And this is the most important.... Being fingerprinted in Iran would be the LEAST of your worries.... Maybe you didnt hear the story about the Iranian born woman from Canada that was bludgeoned so badly that she went into a coma then died just for taking pictures??? NO??? You didnt hear about that???

And to make matters worse the Iranian government would not let the family have the body back.... even threatened the mother with harm if she persisted in her attempts to get the body back.... Gee.... I wonder why they did that??? Could it be because they didnt want the world to have proof that they beat an innocent woman to death??? Fingerprinted.... Sure.... I think I can manage that....

 

[Yngvai X]

Dr Metal, you missed my entire point and right now Im too drunk to elaborate further. Besides if you didn't get it the first time you won't get it a 2nd time.

 

[Nightmare1z]

Eh, he stood by his principles - true. But he's paranoid *and he does use lots of anti-US propaganda words*. Hell, does he not go outside cause he fears a meteor is going to crash into Earth?! I mean, give him a history book on the dinosaurs! A meteor killed them, life was flourishing on Earth and BAM! It's only a matter of time!

We must spread the word to Daniel! Let him know a meteor could hit at anytime! He must escape this Earth!!! For the love of metal!!! He'll never leave his house then! Probabaly would build an underground shelter.

Seriously though, I don't get why people bitch about the security measures. I'm like others - I have nothing to hide. Give me a full cavity search if I fly an airplane, if it keeps us safe, then why would I care if it could be violating my 'moral objections.'

And the whole argument saying that none of the security measures are protecting us is bull shit. We very rarely hear about the stories of people that do get caught and the information is released publicly. What about all the work going on that WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT.

Hear about the guy who was going to build a hydrogen bomb for a group here in the US? How they monitored him TWO F'ING YEARS! Did you guys hear about this for two years while they were working on it'? No. The point is, we don't know how effective these measures are because we don't know the full details. It is per speculation to state that we're no safer then we are before.

Also, its impossible to be fool proof in security. If you want to find a gap or a way to break it, you can. Given enough resources, time, and commitment - it can be done.

And propaganda is a bitch. The US is getting hammered for the prison photo issue, and the entire fabricated flushing the religious text down the toilet.

Yet here are people strapping bombs to themselves, killing their own people making their stand, and led by leaders who ARE declaring war based on religion *comparing to the Bush propaganda*. Did you hear about the one story with a person who strapped explosives with nails to his body, that way when he exploded it shreded the people who were victims - giving a much lower chance of survival?

And the US is getting more bad press for FUCKING PHOTO'S?! The world acts like the US is this Empire bound to fall, while the whole world is just as fucked up. It seems like half the time people are more angry with the US then the terrorists.

I pretty say we're damned if we do, we're damned if we don't. Bush can do everything security wise, if something hits us - he's going to take the fall. Same thing with the US. If there's a world crisis - it is EXPECTED for the US to help with monetary relief. However, at the same time, people want less US invovlement in world affairs. WTF?

I say we just become isolationsists and proceed to only deal in exporting/importing resources. Pull all troops, pull all international aid, pull everything.

Then hear the world bitch about how the US is letting the world become a bad place.

The US cannot win here...it will never please people because of its huge power.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

I was wondering when this "news" would make it's way to this forum...

First off, my disdain for PoS as a band is fairly evident to those who know me. I just don't care for them. They (with the exception of DG, whom I didn't meet) seem like cool guys, and are excellent musicians, I just don't like what they do with their talent. I've bought a couple of their cds, seen them at every Prog Power, and they still don't do a damn thing for me, as a music
fan.

I do feel bad for their fans here in the US, who are left out of a planned tour for something this petty. I should rejoice over the fact that this will open up a slot @ Prog Power every couple of years for a band that might WANT to play here.

If I were to travel to another country, I wouldn't give a rats ass if the wanted finger prints, toe, prints, dna, whatever. I wouldn't expect the same freedom of movement I have here, if I visited Sweden OR Iran. When we got caught with our pants down a few years ago, it was based on forged passports, DLs, and lax security. A fingerprint or a retina scan is a fairly foolproof way to verify one's identity. Times change, this is the world we ALL have to live in, and it probably isn't going to change any time soon, no matter who is running this country.

I would also be bitching in the same way if this was Gamma Ray, Freak Kitchen, or any other band I liked, or even disliked. It my humble opinion that DG is 1) Making a real bad decision 2) is a complete egomaniac, and 3) must be suffering some kind of delusion that he's either Bono or the Pope.

It's FINE for him to stick with his beliefs, but couldn't he publicize his agenda thru words/music, and maybe get his ideals across to a lot of people here by DOING the tour?

The die hard PoS lemmings will cheer this and make him a "martyr". Maybe even make him the patron saint of Prog. To me, he's just being selfish, and keeping his fellow band members from obtaining some financial & musical success, here in the States. Now wait, there's an idea! Let the rest of the guys from PoS come over WITHOUT Danny Boy. Hell, maybe then they'd be worth a listen

 

[J-Dubya 777]

Besides if you didn't get it the first time you won't get it a 2nd time.

Is this anything like "If you don't like PoS, you obviously just don't get it"?
if so,
fucking typical.......

 

[J-Dubya 777]

Eh, he stood by his principles - true. But he's paranoid *and he does use lots of anti-US propaganda words*. Hell, does he not go outside cause he fears a meteor is going to crash into Earth?! I mean, give him a history book on the dinosaurs! A meteor killed them, life was flourishing on Earth and BAM! It's only a matter of time!

We must spread the word to Daniel! Let him know a meteor could hit at anytime! He must escape this Earth!!! For the love of metal!!! He'll never leave his house then! Probabaly would build an underground shelter.

Seriously though, I don't get why people bitch about the security measures. I'm like others - I have nothing to hide. Give me a full cavity search if I fly an airplane, if it keeps us safe, then why would I care if it could be violating my 'moral objections.'

And the whole argument saying that none of the security measures are protecting us is bull shit. We very rarely hear about the stories of people that do get caught and the information is released publicly. What about all the work going on that WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT.

Hear about the guy who was going to build a hydrogen bomb for a group here in the US? How they monitored him TWO F'ING YEARS! Did you guys hear about this for two years while they were working on it'? No. The point is, we don't know how effective these measures are because we don't know the full details. It is per speculation to state that we're no safer then we are before.

Also, its impossible to be fool proof in security. If you want to find a gap or a way to break it, you can. Given enough resources, time, and commitment - it can be done.

And propaganda is a bitch. The US is getting hammered for the prison photo issue, and the entire fabricated flushing the religious text down the toilet.

Yet here are people strapping bombs to themselves, killing their own people making their stand, and led by leaders who ARE declaring war based on religion *comparing to the Bush propaganda*. Did you hear about the one story with a person who strapped explosives with nails to his body, that way when he exploded it shreded the people who were victims - giving a much lower chance of survival?

And the US is getting more bad press for FUCKING PHOTO'S?! The world acts like the US is this Empire bound to fall, while the whole world is just as fucked up. It seems like half the time people are more angry with the US then the terrorists.

I pretty say we're damned if we do, we're damned if we don't. Bush can do everything security wise, if something hits us - he's going to take the fall. Same thing with the US. If there's a world crisis - it is EXPECTED for the US to help with monetary relief. However, at the same time, people want less US invovlement in world affairs. WTF?

I say we just become isolationsists and proceed to only deal in exporting/importing resources. Pull all troops, pull all international aid, pull everything.

Then hear the world bitch about how the US is letting the world become a bad place.

The US cannot win here...it will never please people because of its huge power.

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!
::::::::CLAP CLAP CLAP:::::::::::::::::

Damn, is there a smiley for applause????

 

[Claus / Intromental]

Here's the scariest thing about the whole fingerprint-issue ... please close your eyes (no, not when you're READING, dumbass) and picture this scenario:

I'm coming over for ProgPower again this year (since I have 4 bands playing from the management - Manticora, Circus Maximus, Avian and Outworld), and my plan is - of course, duh! - to get totally drunk and head on down to Cheetahs later on in the evening.

When I'm entering the US customs, apparently I'm gonna have to give out my fingerprints. Fair enough.

But, but, but ... and a BUTT ... how many of the girls at Cheetahs will be able to sue me the day after, when they wake up with my fingerprints all over their asses?

Naaah, I really don't appreciate the fingerprint thing, since it's gonna make it very hard for me to be anonymous at Cheetahs ... where is my freedom? I need it!

C.

 

[adaher]

Amazing that he'll report every financial dealing he makes to his government, but his fingerprints are sacred.

Talk about misplaced priorities...

I don't like the Patriot Act any more than him, but at least I know that there's little short of a police state that Bush can do that would match the infringement of our liberties and privacy that the IRS already represents.

 

[King Lek]

Here's the scariest thing about the whole fingerprint-issue ... please close your eyes (no, not when you're READING, dumbass) and picture this scenario:

I'm coming over for ProgPower again this year (since I have 4 bands playing from the management - Manticora, Circus Maximus, Avian and Outworld), and my plan is - of course, duh! - to get totally drunk and head on down to Cheetahs later on in the evening.

When I'm entering the US customs, apparently I'm gonna have to give out my fingerprints. Fair enough.

But, but, but ... and a BUTT ... how many of the girls at Cheetahs will be able to sue me the day after, when they wake up with my fingerprints all over their asses?

Naaah, I really don't appreciate the fingerprint thing, since it's gonna make it very hard for me to be anonymous at Cheetahs ... where is my freedom? I need it!

C.

LMAO!!!!!!

As far as Daniel goes....after a bit a further thought I guess the official statment of him being sick, really is correct. What asylum is he recieving treatment from?, did they say?...I'll send flowers....

Haver to say though people can really be quite ignorant. Fingerprints are just a unique way to identify someone. Nothing more, nothing less. Banks take them all the time. We all give up more important information everyday without even thinking about it....really do not think highly of his "principles".....total insanity.

 

[Kenneth R.]

metal71 i think you defend your country a little too vigorously when their true intent is far less noble than you claim. i would know, i live here too. the more i learn about what goes on, the less patriotic i become.

 

[ashaman7122]

While I applaud metal71's patriotic fervor...I think he needs to chill the fuck out...

Politics aside (cuz this is a metal forum, ya know)...I think that Daniel's ideals are important (to him)...but his North American fans have to suffer.

I guess we know what the snag in POS' supposed Gigantour involvement might have been...maybe...maybe not...?

Just a shame...


Rock on!

 

[mitthrawnuruodo]

If things are different in Sweden, and fingerprints are only used on prisoners, then I understand why he would not want to submit to it. On the other hand, so much for Europeans being so open minded, apparently this guy is just as closed minded about the US as we are about Europe.