ViK Guitars creator is getting publicly reamed right now

[efx]

I often find the problem with your logic is that (not saying you're doing this) people tend to go "right... this stuff here is offensive and should be outlawed and banned.... but this stuff over here? Nah, we don't find that offensive.. so no need to do anything about it"

So many instances of hate, bigotry, and intolerance fall through the cracks that way. I've experienced it many times in my life, based on my gender, my race, and my hobbies. At a certain point, you've just got to grow a pair of bollocks and accept that the world can be a pretty harsh place.

Most of the time when I say that; I get the response of "oh well you're a straight-white-male, so any oppression, bigotry, or intolerance you've experienced, just isn't going to be on the level of what WE'RE talking about...." - the automatic presumption that my (or yours!) experiences didn't affect me to the same degree ... *sigh* it's just myopic. The whole social justice movement has lost its way. Your Martin Luther Kings no longer exist. It's all just pussy arseholes on the internet.

You make a good point and I certainly wouldn't want to diminish whatever insults or bigotry thrown your way (and I mean that) but if I may generalize a bit, certain types of people do have it easier as a group overall than others depending on where you live.

As per growing a pair, sure that's fine and it helped me get through some tougher times but I also like to think that we can also mature as a society and in the case of the image and treatment of gay people I feel this is no different than the suffragette movement or the civil rights movements of the 50's and onward. Those people didn't simply just grow a pair and deal with the fact that women couldn't vote or that schools were segregated etc. They were movements of actions and laws that I like to think that most of us are happy with being in place today.

To your last point though, I totally agree, the internet has softened what could be a true catalyst for change and demonstrations probably don't hold the same amount of weight as it used to. But that's a different topic I think.

 

[anotherpaul]

@Mago good point about that table. I guess the notion that homophobia is a psychological trick to cover latent homosexuality has been stated in a lot of ways. I think its personal business and should neither be a subject of a public discussion nor be used as a description of an individual.

But to think of it - disgust at a thought or sight of sexual intercourse with the representatives of the same sex or of different species (see racism) or close relatives is somewhat natural reaction that is supposed to help species breed in a healthy way. I understand that people might be born without this protection mechanism and that any mature society should accept it and treat all people as equal.

But unlike say race it's still a deviation, or am I wrong here? Just a deviation that doesn't make a person less capable of what majority would call regular life and doesn't have strong enough evolutional consequence to be ruled out eventually. There's definitely no reason to be ashamed of it, same as for example of being born an albino, but I can't see a reason for pride either. Haven't seen albino pride parade in a while.

I would suppord pride parades for people who were born with physical and mental disabilities who struggle to live a full normal life, but parading for being born with a slight genetic mutation that makes you want to have unreproductive sex is still strange for me.

 

[drew_drummer]

Problem with that report that Mago linked - they're conflating dick size with arousal, which isn't always the case. Arousal is a physical and psychological phenomenon, and reducing it purely to a boner is troubling to say the least. The kneejerk "you don't like gays? You must be in the closet" response is just dumb.

 

[anotherpaul]

The kneejerk "you don't like gays? You must be in the closet" response is just dumb.

Isn't that exactly what people on Vik's facebook are doing?

 

[drew_drummer]

I dunno. Basically... I don't feel that shaming or ridiculing people who have a fear is really a good thing. Education and enlightenment is far better and much more noble.

 

[Clockwork]

Super dumb business decision. I'm sure a lot of people who are flaming him didn't even know about his guitars or wouldn't have bought one in their lifetime anyways but to bring that kind of heat down on yourself/your business is just insanely stupid.

Haven't seen a luthier flamed this much on facebook since Invictus guitars.

 

[LeSedna]

The thing with this topic, is people tend to think this is only about words and opinions, but homophobia is more than real in my country. This made the news last year, because the guy decided to publish his picture :

And the worst part is this is far, far from being an isolated case.

EDIT : I just understood where all of this comes from. Props for Cynic's guys. I can imagine the metal scene from 20 years ago was a difficult challenge for them. Back then in my country homosexuality was considered, officially, a mental disease. If you add on top of that the macho mentality in the metal scene, it must have been pretty tough.

 

[XxSicRokerxX]

hmmm he shouldn't have continued to throw wood at the fire.

 

[anotherpaul]

@LeSedna
Regarding the violence - I suppose that people who beat up gay guys should not be considered bad because they are homophobic. They should be considered bad because they beat people up! Fighting homophobia will not solve the agressive macho problem.
Drunk jocks will find a reason to beat anyone up if they feel like it. I guess good cultural and moral education while raising children would be a good start.

 

[updog]

Isn't this a little blown out of proportion? You can choose not to buy from him, but this public lynching most likely solely conducted by white heterosexuals feels really silly. It's a horrible statement made on behalf of a business to be sure, but to merely insinuate that you possibly might not be that fond of homosexuals, and everyone's suddenly on a crusade against him?

It certainly feels like these people are lifting themselves up on a pedestal by proclaiming that they are open-minded. It always feels like that when the majority collectively gets heated up while the actual minority most likely wouldn't even give a fuck about this random guy.

Being equal goes both ways, right? So don't you think some gay people wouldn't even want things like this to undergo an uproar like this? They're being defended, sure, but all of this underlines that homosexuals are different.

If you were homosexual because that's the way you were born, you wouldn't want to be "special", right? I know I wouldn't.

 

[Clockwork]

Isn't this a little blown out of proportion? You can choose not to buy from him, but this public lynching most likely solely conducted by white heterosexuals feels really silly. It's a horrible statement made on behalf of a business to be sure, but to merely insinuate that you possibly might not be that fond of homosexuals, and everyone's suddenly on a crusade against him?

It certainly feels like these people are lifting themselves up on a pedestal by proclaiming that they are open-minded. It always feels like that when the majority collectively gets heated up while the actual minority most likely wouldn't even give a fuck about this random guy.

Being equal goes both ways, right? So don't you think some gay people wouldn't even want things like this to undergo an uproar like this? They're being defended, sure, but all of this underlines that homosexuals are different.

If you were homosexual because that's the way you were born, you wouldn't want to be "special", right? I know I wouldn't.

I think his comment was a little more severe than that as he is calling out Paul Masvidal with the whole headless thing. Plus since the original post he has only added more fuel to the fire. And as for underlining difference I think that is the point that they are different but don't deserve to be treated differently because of it right?

 

[updog]

I think his comment was a little more severe than that as he is calling out Paul Masvidal with the whole headless thing. Plus since the original post he has only added more fuel to the fire. And as for underlining difference I think that is the point that they are different but don't deserve to be treated differently because of it right?

Right, to be honest I don't know the backstory.

Still, my point is, when a minority is being strongly defended like this by people who aren't part of the minority, it just has to be counter-productive towards their equality with the rest. And I honestly doubt I'm the only one that sees some of the loudest of these people speaking for homosexuality as hypocrites.

It's fine to stand for a minority, but some people shove it down other people's throats as if it was a religion of some sort.

 

[indecizo]

Yeah it's funny to see people intolerant of people who are intolerant of other people. The hate cycle will never end.

 

[Clockwork]

Right, to be honest I don't know the backstory.

Still, my point is, when a minority is being strongly defended like this by people who aren't part of the minority, it just has to be counter-productive towards their equality with the rest. And I honestly doubt I'm the only one that sees some of the loudest of these people speaking for homosexuality as hypocrites.

It's fine to stand for a minority, but some people shove it down other people's throats as if it was a religion of some sort.

Yeah I totally see where you are coming from. I think it probably has the capacity to be counter-productive if the people being vocal about it are ignorant but I think that kind of goes on a case by case basis. Certainly Nolly's statement was thought out and well reasoned, but probably a lot of the facebook posts on the Vik guitar page right now are not. It's like any other argument that occurs on the internet I guess.

 

[Terminus]

Yeah it's funny to see people intolerant of people who are intolerant of other people. The hate cycle will never end.

Yeah pretty much. Fight hatred with more hatred, basically. Oh, humans!

 

[Ermz]

The one thing this wide public lynching did is reinforce in my mind that people really need to step back and get their worldview and priorities in order. If a bigoted guitar manufacturer is the highest thing on your indignation list, you're doing it wrong. But nothing like a nice gang-up, driven by moralistic fervor to spur us on like the tribal dimwits we are.

 

[ArthurD]

 

[ArthurD]

Now getting serius...

But nothing like a nice gang-up, driven by moralistic fervor to spur us on like the tribal dimwits we are.

1000+

 

[Jind]

But nothing like a nice gang-up, driven by moralistic fervor to spur us on like the tribal dimwits we are.

Nothing like that would ever happen here :Smug:

I jest ... really I do ...

 

[He's Dead, Jim]

The one thing this wide public lynching did is reinforce in my mind that people really need to step back and get their worldview and priorities in order. If a bigoted guitar manufacturer is the highest thing on your indignation list, you're doing it wrong. But nothing like a nice gang-up, driven by moralistic fervor to spur us on like the tribal dimwits we are.

Well, for example, we expect Boko Haram to kidnap and sell Nigerian schoolgirls into slavery. That's terrible, but it's par for the course because they're an awful, despicable group of murdering psychos.

We don't expect some guitar manufacturer to post bigoted things on the internet, because civilized people are supposed to not hold irrational, mean-spirited views about the personal lives of others if they aren't doing anything wrong. Although in this case his comment seems to have been substantially less offensive than your daily Plendakor post, as far as I can tell.

edit: actually, no, he's a shitbag:

"But don’t expect me to like or sympathize your choice just because you are “different”. I may be tolerant to you and that’s it."