War on ____

[Fenrisúlfr]

It is unavoidable that taxes go up under either president, as it will likely come to the point where it is impossible to borrow a cent further without causing damage to the credit rating. Thus, the choice will be to either raise taxes or cut spending, as Washington is incapable of the latter, the former will ensue. However, if the currency winds up crashing again, where € goes to $2 and £ goes to 3, the decision will already be made by bond-holding nations e.g. China, Japan.

 

[Einherjar86]

The people of America are being blindfolded. The government is severely limiting our freedoms, and I mean on an economic level. We say we're a capitalist nation, but there are so many regulations that restrict such an economic policy.

I understand the reasons why many regulations were crafted, and I definitely don't condone corporations taking advantage of employees. However, there's no way a true capitalist system can work unless we nullify many of the regulations. The capitalist mindset of selling items cheaply while spending even less to make them has gone too far. Since exploitation of workers has ceased due to regulations and inspections, many corporations have turned to outsourcing and the like. These are not the basic ideals of capitalism. We're digging ourselves into a grave that none of us will be able to climb out of no matter how many of our countrymen we kill so that we can stand on their corpses. Therefore, what will we do? Resort to going to war with a different country. And the cycle continues.

 

[razoredge]

The tax really bothers you doesn't it?

Yes Cipher wants to take the infrastructure for granted, but then he wants to be an engineer and touts the need for expensive engineering in the infrastructure.

He also wants to ignore that this crap with Russia escalated when Russian armed communist N Korea marched down into S Korea. Im not supporting police actions by any means, I lived during the Vietnam war and it was shit stupid and terrifying. So were the missles and armament, a fear many of you have not known. My generations outcry is what helped curb it. However, the Korean thing was 5 years after WWII, and fueled the cold war into extremes. The Russians got their far share of German scientists and people and their respective governments were concerned. Hitler marching across Europe was still heavily imbedded in peoples mind, we didnt like to see any form of aggression... especially if it concerned "communism". I've been told my economic views more relate to communism than capitolism... I say whatever... fuck that they both suck shit and in application mask the same basic human function of greed for the few.

Then of course their was the E German closing of the borders and construction of the Berlin wall. Something that took 37 years of Western interference to bring down.

Then of course there was all the bullshit in Cuba during the 50's, ending with Castro in power by '59 with a Soviet alliance.

Yep the US had to step things up, borders, countries and aggressive alliances were being pushed with Soviet influence. So yes, we started to meddle... for the capitolism you all cry for and against communism and aggressive actions. Unfortunantly some of the leaders we backed got power happy. Today and in past decades we paid the price, but sitting back and watching so many countrys get Soviet alliances then becoming aggressive was not an option.

Once again remember this all happened within 20 years of the world witnessing a group of madmen march across Europe seeking world domination and it cost DEARLY to stop ! A sacrifice none of us has even known, including my generation.

yeah... and that thing about the US being attacked... heres a few dates 12-7-41.... 9-11-01

Then... less US related and more World related... theres the Munich massacre of '72... how manly... lets kill us some athletes... that'll show em.

Various plane hijackings, kidnappings, hostages, various bombings... more courageous acts...

So yeah... its real easy to be an armchair leader and say what should have been done. Regardless the mistakes, la tee da was not an option.

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

@Einherjer

The economic restrictions only serve to enrich already-entrenched interests so that competition will face an uphill battle. Additionally, this is partly as a result of the 'revolving door effect' in agencies which regulate certain sectors of the economy e.g. FDA, but also because politicians need to be seen as 'doing something', though I refer to it as 'meddling'. Regarding the former: typically, agencies will hire people from the private sector, and regulators will often wind up working for the private sector after a stint. For example, Michael Taylor, who worked for the FDA, was a lawyer for Monsanto. Regarding the latter: politicians in practice do not act in the interests of their constituents, otherwise things would be very different. As such, when they meddle, they do so with their re-election and contributors in mind.

If not regulated to death and if the government was limited to its Constitutional powers, the United States, once the world's largest net creditor, would be able to out-manufacture China or even Germany. Ours was the freest market, so we were prosperous. Now, the corporate tax rates are among the highest in the industrialized world and the land is buried in red tape, so it is no wonder China was worth the risk.

@razor:

That which you said was not an option was the one way that would have prevented this nonsense to begin with. Give me the Swiss 'la te da' over your interventionism any day.

You failed to address my initial question, though: what business it is of ours? What claim does another entity have to demand a sacrifice, be it of blood or money, in affairs that did not concern us? You speak of all of these affairs that do not concern We the People who live in the United States (for now), but instead concern other nations with whom we have no business entering into entangling alliances.

Granted, in the earlier post, I mis-spoke, using attack in lieu of invasion; mea culpa. I am all in favour of defence of the country from an attack such as Pearl Harbour and of the borders, but with a Swiss approach with the addendum that it be voluntary and the pay be in line, if not above, that in the private sector so as to attract the best and the brightest as well as the civic-minded.

However, I do not consider 9-11 an attack by a state but by a criminal enterprise and it should have been approached that way.

As for engineering and government infrastructure, that is a textbook case of the failure of government. They cannot even keep roads from falling apart, even with all the money they take. The private sector could provide such things with minimal regulation, as it clearly falls under 'interstate commerce',one of the powers delegated by the Constitution. So, you got it right for once, with one addendum: I tout "the need for expensive engineering in...infrastructure built and paid for by the private sector"

 

[Einherjar86]

I call it "meddling" as well. Awesome post. You're much more knowledgeable in this area than I am, but I agree with what you've said.

 

[razoredge]

What we have today with economics and monopolies really started steam rolling in the 80's when Regan deregulated and corporate America began padding their pockets and the pockets of Wallstreet investors by running companies into the ground and selling off our assets. Possibly two seperate things but they both created a false economy.

No, your option would have the world is bad shape now. Sitting back and doing nothing was what made the push back of Nazi Germany as well as the Japanese such an uphill and costly battle... we were not about to let it happen again, its that simple. Easy for you to talk as you sit in your picture perfect lifestyle, ignoring how you became entitled to it. Ignoring the events that were unfolding post WWII and approaching our borders, no smart dog allows theirself to get backed in the corner.

All our meddleing... which is also what I have called it for decades is what kept hostilities and communism from becoming wide spred.

As I said in the begining there was two players and alot of pawns looking for attention from the most appealing bidder. Yeah it sucked but it was going on and the US was not the initiator. Deny it all you want, look down the narrow alley seeing the half of the picture you please, but it doesnt change any of the events or the necessity... and Im not talking about this latest boondoggle, still you better find all the facts that led to this one as well, some bullshit, some legit

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

I am not well-versed on what Regan did, though if inflation-adjusted hourly earnings are any indication, the inflection point pre-dates Regan.
http://macroblog.typepad.com/macroblog/2005/12/are_workers_los.html
That, however, is beside the point. When corporations merge and shed dead weight, they are able to lower prices and compete more effectively with rivals. Additionally, vis-a-vis Locke, the purpose of government is not to regulate who can sell what when or for what. The temptation to make unfree an otherwise-free market is great, but always produces undesirable consequences.

This was never an issue of the world, this was an issue of what is good for the well-being of the people of the United States. Europe's problem are just those: Europe's problems, and do not warrant outside interference. Granted Roosevelt's policy toward the Japanese before 1941 was, pardon my French, bullshit, but to repel the Japanese beyond our own borders should have been the extent of WW2 provided German or Italian forces did not cross our borders.

What corner would we have gotten backed into? The need to spread communism to 'client states' was a direct consequence of the breakdown of the Yalta conference, which itself came into being as a result of the US going into WW2. If one examines US policy toward the USSR, we did not even have diplomatic relations with them until 1933; they had no business with us and it would have stayed that way. Additionally, Stalin advocated what I would have advocated had I been a socialist (may the Gods forbid!): socialism in one country, which would imply that he did not intend on launching an invasion. Thus, the cornering argument is absurd on its face, as any cornering would have been a product of belligerence on part of the US, and frankly, methinks 9-11 is a product of US belligerence in the Mid-East.

 

[Einherjar86]

I (and I believe Cipher as well) am speaking of only economic restrictions. I don't agree at all with what occurred in Nazi Germany regarding the concentration camps; but that's an issue totally unrelated to economy. I believe that economy should go unchecked (or more unchecked than it is now), but that doesn't mean everything else should. Economic freedom won't entail the internment of ethnic groups.

Furthermore, the "meddling" of American government hasn't kept communism at bay. If anything, the "meddling" itself is of a communist nature.

EDIT: @razoredge

And good post again Cipher.

 

[razoredge]

Yes, very little experience in the world is showing. As I said its easy to sit and arm chair, act the nothing important or bad was going on. Especially if you were born into the easy slide of the 90's. Concentration camps were nothing in the big picture of WWII and a none issue until the end in fact. Its easy to sit and fantasize about a utopian society but alas the world nor life work that way.

 

[razoredge]

http://macroblog.typepad.com/macrobl...rkers_los.html

Oh, there it is... all you need to know bout wasup......

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

Yes, very little experience in the world is showing. As I said its easy to sit and arm chair, act the nothing important or bad was going on. Especially if you were born into the easy slide of the 90's. Concentration camps were nothing in the big picture of WWII and a none issue until the end in fact. Its easy to sit and fantasize about a utopian society but alas the world nor life work that way.

Just because there is something bad going on does not mean that one should be made to solve it. If society was utopian, it would be one thing, but in such a circumstance, there would be no need for government to begin with: why have a small evil when one may have none at all?

You never replied to my inquiry regarding how much money was confiscated from you last year. One cannot help but to think there is some sort of 'Stockholm Syndrome" in play...

 

[razoredge]

Stockholm Syndrome ?

How much did it cost your Daddy to keep you in pretension last year ? As you sit and take everything you have for granted, pretending everything around you just happened, as if a Genie dropped by. You are the first person I met that feels, the US & Allied efforts of WWII were not necessary and everyone should have just sat back.

The Cold War... when you started it was all the States doing and you chose to ignore the cold war, then it went to having two sides exactly as I said, now your back to the States being at blame, when I showed clearly the aggressions that led to its escalation and you handily ignored those... and your concerned about whether I responded about what I pay for taxes ? yet your years away from paying school and property tax, years away from the frustration (most likely protected) of every other thing reducing the value of a paycheck. All of which have nothing to do with the cold war... or "corporate taxes". Children are so easily steered or as Einherjar said "blindfolded", as you choose one side of the fence and call it "the answer"

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

No party except the commodities markets paid for my up keep. I constructed a tax shelter, made a few good (and very highly-leveraged) bets and they are paying off literally like no-one's business. As such, I am a self-made man of 21, financing my own education and modest upkeep. Likewise, I do not pay for others' nor shall I be made to.

As for future taxation, I do not intend on sticking around to have my 'fair share' confiscated to pay for the Leviathan's antics. There are many liveable tax havens, and they all need to keep the lights on.

Corporate taxes and the cold war had this to do with what you have to pay in taxes: the interest the debt caused by the glut in military spending is being passed on to both companies and taxpayers. It is also passed on through inflation, when the money supply is increased when the federal government goes into deficit and new bonds are issued to cover its largesse. When corporations do not find it profitable to do business in the US, they create jobs elsewhere. The US is far from the only game in town and is far from the best, at least, for someone who can compete in a global economy.

As for the cold-war aggression, I shall say this but once again: it originated with US meddling, and the subsequent troubles came as a result. I grant, however, it is hypothetical and as such may not be determined one way or another, though it is a very likely if not certain for the aforementioned reasons.

 

[razoredge]

First paragraph shows why you think like you do. You live inside the well protected loophole that lies within the manipulative wealthy, who in reality are the problem, well protected by the government and other means that you scorn. It also shows you dont earn nor pay for your keep but are just another leach of society in a different set of cloths. Theres other things that dont line up... Im also surprised, you look far closer to 15 than 21.

Second paragraph states a small percentage of the obvious and selectively omits the far larger picture, which aids in securing the smoke and mirror walls.

Third paragraph - you have failed to show were the origions of the meddling of the States was. Nor have you shown the world scenerio today had we kicked back and just let all these other nations ran by wack job military leaders accomplish world domination.

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

struck a nerve, didn't I?

I'm done arguing with you; I can go on for fifteen pages alternating between us, and frankly, as amusing as it is, it will serve no purpose and wind up pissing us both off.

P.S. you're probably just jealous; did you ever post a picture? Or those tax figures?

 

[razoredge]

Doesnt strike a nerve, it met my expectations, has shown light since your first post. Jelous would be an awesome defence to use for criminals.

 

[derek]

Let's be done with this, shall we? You've both been arguing the same point for the past few pages, with almost no evolution of thought.

In fact for the past 10 replies or so, it's mainly been personal.

 

[razoredge]

I didnt notice any arguement, I just needed the time to extract confirmation. Anytime someone continuously ignores important factors things begin to reek a self serving stench. Not unlike that of the current US administration and others before.