Waves Renaissance Bass (RBass)

[Aaron Smith]

I can recall from time to time on these boards, there have been discussions of mastering methodology where someone will be using a psycho-acoustic bass enhancer on the master bus, and the idea always gets shut down- it's better to fix in in the mix, boost more low frequencies on the appropriate individual tracks, etc. I am always of the notion that things should be adjusted and corrected in the mix as much as possible rather than "fixed" on the master bus, but what I've been wondering as of late, is if things like the Waves Renaissance Bass actually have any value. I've got a pretty killer mix going at the moment, it translates well to other systems, the low end is about right...but I started messing with the RBass on the individual bass guitar track just for fun, and I really do love the way it sounds with just a SLIGHT increase in the perceived sub low range (32-45Hz). I started experimenting with the kick as well, and once again- with just a SLIGHT enhancement in the perceived 45-55Hz range, it made the kick sound cooler/beefier as well. I can see how plug-ins like this can be easily over-boosted and abused in the hands of someone who doesn't have a good handle on EQ or mixing to begin with, but it's strange to me that no one here (to my knowledge) has mentioned any practical positive use of this type of plug-in. Does anyone here make good, reasonable use of psycho-acoustic bass enhancement, and more importantly, do any pro mixers use them?

 

[KeithTidd]

i like using it on bass sometimes. If my kick needs beef, i do the old signal generator trick. It's a tricky plugin to get right, sometimes it will make you bass un even sounding; certain notes not being as bassy as others.

 

[MetalMiller]

I`ve heard that many Producers use rbass and maxxbass often as standard plugin on low-frequency instruments. I have PSP Mixpack 2 wich comes with a usefull bassenhancer with even more options than r/maxxbass. I use it on every kick, tom and bass track.

 

[sirscratch01]

I interned for a while with a guy who does a lot of latin pop music these days and he uses a dbx subharmonic synthesizer for the bass all the time. It sounds nice and full on regular speakers and it really gets the bass moving on subs. But he also used to work with Duran Duran and he said he accidentally discovered that he'd put way too much of it on the toms one day when he was at home watching The Saint (the Val Kilmer movie) and the Duran Duran song played during the closing credits and the toms had this weird boomy thing going on. So i guess the moral is be suuuure you like it before you print it because it could end up in a movie 10 years later and you'll hate it haha.

 

[kev]

I like using it on dance kicks : )

 

[ahjteam]

but it's strange to me that no one here (to my knowledge) has mentioned any practical positive use of this type of plug-in. Does anyone here make good, reasonable use of psycho-acoustic bass enhancement

I used it once (pardon my shitty playing on the clip) so that I ran the "percussions" thru a bitcrusher and it pretty much became almost bassless, so I added some thump for the "kick" with MaxxBass (or was it RBass?)

 

[abyssofdreams]

SLIGHT increase in the perceived sub low range (32-45Hz).

are you kidding? what the hell does your bass do at those frequencies

I sometimes group kick and bass and put RBass on it but around 60-100hz, also very subtle. but that low? nah...at least not with metal.

 

[Gomez]

Same here, sometimes on bass... Never heard of anyone putting it on the master buss and god forbid I will but whatever works.

The problem I fin with both the Maxx bass and Ren bass is that they seem to work great at first, but then they tend to disappoint... It's tricky to use but it can work.

 

[Aaron Smith]

are you kidding? what the hell does your bass do at those frequencies

I sometimes group kick and bass and put RBass on it but around 60-100hz, also very subtle. but that low? nah...at least not with metal.

When you say "but that low?" it kind of sounds like you're missing the point, because RBass is not actually adding low frequencies. It boosts harmonic content that causes your brain to think you are hearing the selected frequency. Because of this, you can get away with making some of those more extreme low frequencies sound more present, without actually altering the realy low end of the mix. I'm sure you are already aware of this... 32-45Hz is indeed very low on the frequency spectrum, but of course there is plenty of "sound data" to be felt/percieved in that range...the trick is getting the level correct. Do you not enjoy the sound of a bass when you can perceive just the slightest amount of those sub lows? I think a whole lot of emotive power for a song is gained when those frequencies are perceived in the right places, and metal is no different.

 

[Unavailable]

This sounds like something Jason Suecof might do, because his kicks have this awesome low end that I can never achieve by just boosting the sub lows.

 

[John_C]

aaron, you're on 999!!!!!!!

 

[abyssofdreams]

because RBass is not actually adding low frequencies.

Hmm, are you sure about that? Or isn't boosting harmonic content also adding low frequencies, just different than a simple EQ? I'm not implying that you might be wrong, I just want to understand it better myself.

And for the other argument, most systems can't translate these low frequencies anyways and I tend to rolloff with a steep HP filter like up to 40hz, especially with faster metal. If there's too much content down there it tends to go whacky with the compressor. And last but not least, there's the headroom issue.

Indeed, I might miss the point here, I haven't tried it anyways yet, just curious.

 

[Metaltastic]

Yeah, to me the main issue is that indeed so very many systems can't reliably produce sounds under like 50 Hz, so I'd be wary of what devilishness this plugin does to make it sound like they are

 

[John_C]

the clue is in the word psycho-acoustic
it's a trick to make your BRAIN think you're hearing more low content than are actually coming out of the speakers. It's used in those little edirol speakers to make the 4" driver or whatever it is sound like it's big enough to produce lower frequencies. Admittedly they're turd, but the principle is sound

 

[Metaltastic]

I know, that's what I mean, I find a lot of that psycho-acoustic nonsense (especially the dreaded stereo wideners) really just give me a headache from the strange phaseyness...no thanks

 

[Kazrog]

RBass and MaxxBass are awesome plugins. Anyone know of a more affordable alternative?

 

[Damian B]

RBass and MaxxBass are awesome plugins. Anyone know of a more affordable alternative?

I use the Modern Exciter for this purpose sometimes, I think it does the same thing in principle...

http://antress.webng.com/