What am I doing wrong? (Reaper)

[Melodeath]

Not a n00b to recording or even Reaper, but I'm definitely not an expert on this program, and am looking for some insight.

I've tracked a few albums using Reaper, and the Take system is a nightmare for me. I've simply just put up with it because I don't know a better method to record and comp. However, I'm about 50% sure there's a better way to record than my method, and 95% sure one of you guys reading will know it.

When I'm recording myself, I usually just record one or two tracks, and don't have to do a lot of takes, so it's pretty straight-forward, but when I'm recording a drummer, things can get much crazier. I've got like 12 mics up, and it's take after take after take... Every time you do a new take, Reaper auto-splits at the beginning and end of your new recording/clip. This results in a whole bunch of good, "keeper" takes being auto-split when it's time to record the next riff/beat/section.

My usual setting is "Split existing items and create new takes," but I want to be able to comp a take without a whole bunch of random splits in it.

I mean, just take a look at a typical Project after we've finished recording, and before I've edited/comped all the takes. Granted, this song is 13 takes that I had to comp together, but it LOOKS way more complex than that because of all the damn splits.

Is there a way to do multiple takes without having the clips autosplit? I know I can group all the tracks together to make editing faster, but it still takes at least 30 minutes to comp a song, and I think it would be a lot faster if I didn't have to go in and delete all the clips that are just split off sections from a good take.

I have tried "Create new Media Items in Separate Lanes (Layers)" instead of my usual "Split existing items and create new takes," but I didn't find an easy way to switch between takes and listen to what was best. I seemed to have no control over which Layer was playing back.

Any advice from Reaper users? Thanks

 

[anotherpaul]

"Trims existing items behind new recording (tape mode)." Be a man.

 

[Sloan]

I want to say there is a way to only show the active take (???), then you can use either the right-click menu and/or keystrokes to toggle between takes. Takes do get messy when dealing with multiple tracks for one source, like drums, and it would be great to have some sort of option to help deal with this.


EDIT: Looking through the options, maybe there's not a way. I generally Crop To Active Take immediately if I know I'm not gonna use the previous one. Then, when that track is done, I will GLUE it.

 

[bryan_kilco]

"Trims existing items behind new recording (tape mode)." Be a man.

This.

Options -> New recording that overlaps existing media items -> Trims existing items behind new recording (tape mode)

I was super happy when I figured that out.

EDIT: Ok, so I didn't read the OP fully. It appears you WANT to keep the lanes but make it "one click" to select all the takes that are needed. Not sure about this. I can't stand the lane system that is default, so I always use the "Trims existing items behind ... (tape mode)" because it works best for me.

 

[Melodeath]

I want to say there is a way to only show the active take (???), then you can use either the right-click menu and/or keystrokes to toggle between takes. Takes do get messy when dealing with multiple tracks for one source, like drums, and it would be great to have some sort of option to help deal with this.


EDIT: Looking through the options, maybe there's not a way. I generally Crop To Active Take immediately if I know I'm not gonna use the previous one. Then, when that track is done, I will GLUE it.

I thought about just gluing, instead of cleaning out all the splits by Deleting and dragging the ends of a clip/take, but I believe GLUEing just creates a new 32-bit file, which is a waste of space. And if you have splits set to automatically have a fade out and fade in, you're goign to be gluing a weird fade into the clip (I believe, please correct me if I'm wrong)

This.

Options -> New recording that overlaps existing media items -> Trims existing items behind new recording (tape mode)

I was super happy when I figured that out.

EDIT: Ok, so I didn't read the OP fully. It appears you WANT to keep the lanes but make it "one click" to select all the takes that are needed. Not sure about this. I can't stand the lane system that is default, so I always use the "Trims existing items behind ... (tape mode)" because it works best for me.

I'm not sure exactly what I want. I like showing takes in lanes because I can visually see "oh, I'm for sure listening to Take 3 right now out of 5," but that's during recording and when we're discussing the takes. When we have settled/agreed on a Take, I should be more diligent on using "Crop to Active Take," but I think I would still end up with a bunch of splits within the good Take. That's the main thing I want to avoid - all the splits; because they are a nightmare when it comes to editing.

I'm looking for a better method to record, whether it has to do with my settings, or me physically doing something differently from my normal routine while recording. As it is, it's really annoying if a drummer wants to hear the take in context with a crossfade because I have to sit there and edit it before he can even listen. Then he will decide if it's good enough or if he's re-doing it. It just seems more time-consuming than it SHOULD be.

 

[Sloan]

I thought about just gluing, instead of cleaning out all the splits by Deleting and dragging the ends of a clip/take, but I believe GLUEing just creates a new 32-bit file, which is a waste of space. And if you have splits set to automatically have a fade out and fade in, you're goign to be gluing a weird fade into the clip (I believe, please correct me if I'm wrong)

Gluing will create a new file, but just use 'Clean project directory' when you are done tracking. I have my auto crossfades set to like 0.005 so they are practically unnoticeable but they kill any clicks/pops on a non zero crossing.

This method also forces you to commit to the most recent take. Recently I found that committing to stuff to vastly improves my workflow.

 

[RedDog]

Looks like your drummer needs to fucking practice. Yeah, if you want to clean up the media bay (which sounds purely cosmetic) just glue them. It takes thirty seconds. If you're worried about editing the splices, have the drummer track in sections. Group the tracks and turn off auto crossfade.

 

[Melodeath]

I thought about just gluing, instead of cleaning out all the splits by Deleting and dragging the ends of a clip/take, but I believe GLUEing just creates a new 32-bit file, which is a waste of space. And if you have splits set to automatically have a fade out and fade in, you're goign to be gluing a weird fade into the clip (I believe, please correct me if I'm wrong)

Gluing will create a new file, but just use 'Clean project directory' when you are done tracking. I have my auto crossfades set to like 0.005 so they are practically unnoticeable but they kill any clicks/pops on a non zero crossing.

This method also forces you to commit to the most recent take. Recently I found that committing to stuff to vastly improves my workflow.

What I meant is that the fades at a split can look like \/ instead of a crossfade, and you don't want to glue that into a clip. Of course, I think I actually have auto-fades on split turned off, but I'm still pretty anal about gluing.

Looks like your drummer needs to fucking practice. Yeah, if you want to clean up the media bay (which sounds purely cosmetic) just glue them. It takes thirty seconds. If you're worried about editing the splices, have the drummer track in sections. Group the tracks and turn off auto crossfade.

Well yes, you're right. He needs to practice. But unfortunately, that's not possible. He doesn't have a drumset where he lives, and he has to hop on a plane just to come see us to write new songs or record or play a show. We're lucky he keeps getting better at drumming regardless, but knowing lots of takes will be necessary when recording is expected for us . He basically has to re-learn all of the songs, and we're adding all these little flourishes to the beats and fills in the studio.
Because of our spread out geography, our band's methods are a little unorthodox. I don't even remember how to play half of the guitar riffs on the album we just tracked drums for. It's a weird feeling, but it all comes together in the end.

We track in "sections," but somehow or another, I still wind up with tons of extraneous splits. It's confusing. I group sections and clean out all the internal splits, but it's more time consuming than it should be.

 

[mharwood]

If you're worried about editing the splices, have the drummer track in sections.

This is what I typically do to reduce take clutter. I'll have the performer (vocalist, guitarist, etc.) play through the whole song once for take #1, and then use the "time selection auto punch" recording mode to record subsequent takes in pre-defined sections (typically whole verses, chorus, etc). Works well for reducing take clutter, and also seems to result in a more natural performance since I have a number of complete song sections to work from, rather than just bits and pieces. It does, however, take more time and (in the case of some physically demanding vocal or drums tracks) more endurance on the part of the performer.

 

[Nimvi]

and also seems to result in a more natural performance since I have a number of complete song sections to work from, rather than just bits and pieces.

This is how I see it too. It may take some tries to get it right, but so far the people I've worked with have been happiest with those results (and me too).

That first full take ends up having some gold in it quite often too.

 

[Melodeath]

When you guys say "sections," you mean record Section A, then Section B, then C, right?

I have the drummer come in a little bit before the actual section we're meaning to record. This helps with crossfading, as the proper cymbals will be ringing prior to the keeper take of the new section.

However, you always end up with a split in Section B right where the end of the Section A take is.

 

[bryan_kilco]

What I meant is that the fades at a split can look like / instead of a crossfade

I'm curious as to the different types of crossfades.

I usually have mine set to the 45 degree straight line. I noticed default is the "rolled off", sorta rounded line, and I forget what the 3rd option is.

How do these differ? Isn't the waveform being rolled off either way at the same speed?

 

[hahallur]

When you've picked the take you want press Ctrl+L to only see the active take.

I usually avoid making takes overlap when recording guitar, rather have 2 tracks and jump between them.

For drums I have 2 sets of tracks; first set for recording the whole thing trough a few times, overlapping and picking the best takes.
The second set is for overdubs of stuff that wasn't good enough in the first batch.

 

[bryan_kilco]

I don't record drums very often, but the last time I did, we went section at a time. I absolutely hate having to sort through a full song and pick out what parts are great, maybe useable, or total garbage. I'd rather go in small sections and know that we get the take right and move on with the song rather than have a bunch of gaps to fill. This seems to be a little more fatiguing on the drummer though.

 

[Melodeath]

I'm curious as to the different types of crossfades.

I usually have mine set to the 45 degree straight line. I noticed default is the "rolled off", sorta rounded line, and I forget what the 3rd option is.

How do these differ? Isn't the waveform being rolled off either way at the same speed?

Sounds like you're wondering about equal power fades versus linear fades. I personally always use equal power (the curved one). If you were crossfading two sine waves that were phase coherent, the linear crossfade might work best for no volume fluctuation.

When you've picked the take you want press Ctrl+L to only see the active take.

I usually avoid making takes overlap when recording guitar, rather have 2 tracks and jump between them.

For drums I have 2 sets of tracks; first set for recording the whole thing trough a few times, overlapping and picking the best takes.
The second set is for overdubs of stuff that wasn't good enough in the first batch.

That's a decent idea. You could even track by section, and alternate which tracks your recording to to solve the splits issue. Maybe a bit convoluted, but better than splits.

I don't record drums very often, but the last time I did, we went section at a time. I absolutely hate having to sort through a full song and pick out what parts are great, maybe useable, or total garbage. I'd rather go in small sections and know that we get the take right and move on with the song rather than have a bunch of gaps to fill. This seems to be a little more fatiguing on the drummer though.

This is what I do with my drummer too. I'm not sure if it's out of necessity, since he is simultaneously re-learning the tunes, or just the method we gravitate towards.