What are the basics of guitar recording

[Morgan C]

So..
meganooby question

Most people here have gone from guitar players to audio engineers. I went from drummer to audio engineer. Once I've got the guitar DI I'm sweet (send it to Ryan/Greg ;p), but I have no clue about how to record a good DI, and although I've just trusted the guitarist, I know I'm gonna get a fucktard who is gonna mess up the sound.

So.
Which pickups are best? Most guitars have 3way pickups, others have 5. Is it a matter of 'whatever sounds best' or is there ALWAYS one setting. For Rhythm and leads but also for cleans/rock tones.

There are 3 (?) knobs on the guitar - volume, tone (?) and something else?
Last band I recorded I had to reduce the volume on the guitar because the DI was clipping my FP10. Is that alright?
What should the other knobs be set to?


Same dealio with bass.

I realise a lot of this is general knowledge, and probably easily Googleable but the chances of getting bad info are pretty high, and I trust you guys a lot more. Plus I don't own a guitar so this isn't something I can try out, I need to just know it.

 

[GarethSE]

You generally wanna use the bridge pickup, which would be the pickup selection that points more towards the floor than the cieling (just incase you didn't know, don't want to insult your intelligence or anything, but I figured I might as well give you the detailz)

But with les paul type guitars that aren't tended to properly by lazy guitarists the pickup selectors can eventually turn round, so listen for the more trebley, less twangy, less thick and punchy sound.
Don't be afraid to suggest to guitarists that they use the neck pickup for solos or leads or clean tones though. Especially clean tones. I cannot STAND bridge pickup clean tones, there's something extremely lifeless about the clean tones metal guitarists dial in. Switching to the neck pickup may not give them like a Jeff Buckley quality clean tone or whatever, but it will definately inject some much needed life and energy and punch and CHIME into the clean tone, emphasis on the chime.

Guitars with three knobs are usually either 2 volume and 1 tone or 2 tone and 1 volume. Tone knobs are a high end roll off as I'm sure you know, so keep that high unless you're working with a guitarist who actually knows what the fuck he's doing with one, but those guitarists are a rare fucking breed and you most likely won't need to do that with Metal, unless you've got a really good lead player who wants to roll off his high end with the tone knob rather than a low-pass or something. You'll have to use your best judgement when it comes to things like that.
Just fuck around with the knobs and listen for their affect. Keep the volume and tone knobs at max though for metal and rock rhythm playing though. Then just turn the gain down on your firepod until you can't hear any clipping. But yeah, get to the point where you can't hear any clipping then back the gain off a little bit more, just to be sure. Don't worry about having the DI's loud enough. Volume isn't an issue, clipping is.

 

[Harry Hughes]

What I think you mean is, 3 and 5 way switches.
These control which pickups are operating/which configuration they are operating in.
In the case of recording rhythm tones for metal, in 99 per cent of cases you will ALWAYS be using the bridge pickup for that anyway. In the case of a Fender style switch, be it 3 or 5 way, if it's in a position closest to the pickups, it's on the neck pickup, and the extreme opposite means it's on the bridge pickup. Depending on whether it's a 3 way switch or 5 way and other things relating to the guitar's pickup configuration determine what happens when the switch is in other 3 (if it's a 5 way switch) or 1 (if it's 3 way) positions.
For Gibson style guitars it will typically actually say "treble" on the body itself. If the switch is pointing in that direction, it means it's on the bridge pickup.

For leads, it all depends on many factors. Personally I never use the neck pickup unless I'm sweep picking. Other guys like to use it for all their leads, it's just personal preference really.
For cleans/classic rock, however you can get away with using the neck pickup for rhythms too, since there is less (in the case of classic rock) or virtually none (in the case of clean) pre-amp saturation going on to potentially cause mud.
For clean tones, I prefer single coils in most instances, although humbuckers are perfectly fine too.
For some rock, sometimes the gain is about as high as metal anyway, so you may want to use the bridge pickup to keep the low end under control.

As for the knobs, you may be talking about a guitar with one volume control, and 2 tone controls.
Don't worry about them so much, for most metal rhythms, you'll usually leave them on full to ensure the best treble response.
For leads, can work, but me personally, I removed the tone knob from my guitar entirely.

For sludgy stuff, I don't know if you're into that, sometimes using the neck pickup under high gain is advantageous towards getting you to a certain sludgy sound. There are some sludge /stoner metal guitarists that like to do this.

You also want a guitar to be set up correctly i .e well intonated, no/minimal fret buzzing, correctly set up bridge and nut, frets in good condition (really worn frets can cause intonation problems) etc etc . If in doubt, take it to a guitar tech/ a friend that knows his shit when it comes to guitars.
Wiring has to be in good condition. Nothing worse than wires coming loose during a tracking sessions and having to re solder shit and waste a good 20 minutes (or even longer) or so.
Unless you're deliberately after that tone, old strings are a no no.
Try to keep them less than 10 days old if you can. Old strings can fuck with intonation and can cause the tone to sound less clear than you'd like.
These are things often overlooked, but can impact dramatically on the final result.

For bass guitars in metal, compression is very common to keep dynamics under control.
Some styles call for more dynamics, but in a lot of metal it's generally not needed and just easier to work with bass that isn't hopping around volume wise too much.

Pickups wise, for both guitars and bass, actives are a good bet.
For guitars, that means EMGs generally (I'd mention Blackouts, but they seem unpopular around here, but FWIW I prefer 7 string Blackouts to 7 string EMGS, but prefer 6 string EMGS to 6 string Blackouts).
They are virgin tight (the EMG 81 model anyway, 85 can get loose in the wrong guitar/wrong amp settings more easily) and just fucking work for metal.


And fuck, Gareth got in before I posted this (was typing it while he must have posted it, didn't see it until I cntrl C'd my post to see if anyone else posted and then pasted it back up) but hopefully this helps and anything I may have repeated might make you remember it a bit more lol.

 

[Morgan C]

You generally wanna use the bridge pickup, which would be the pickup selection that points more towards the floor than the cieling (just incase you didn't know, don't want to insult your intelligence or anything, but I figured I might as well give you the detailz)

I didn't know that


And thanks Petrovski too..

So basically, pickup switch towards the floor and everything else on max.

Keep the volume and tone knobs at max though for metal and rock rhythm playing though. Then just turn the gain down on your firepod until you can't hear any clipping. But yeah, get to the point where you can't hear any clipping then back the gain off a little bit more, just to be sure. Don't worry about having the DI's loud enough. Volume isn't an issue, clipping is.

FP10's gain was at 0 (which is actually trim -4db). So my only options were lower volume on the guitar's knob or clip the DI's. Obviously I chose the former.. is there any downside to this?

For bass guitars in metal, compression is very common to keep dynamics under control.
Some styles call for more dynamics, but in a lot of metal it's generally not needed and just easier to work with bass that isn't hopping around volume wise too much.

Yeah, mixing is fine. Its the tracking that I'm not so great with. I know bass guitar's have a tone knob that's kinda opposite to a guitar, it sounded like a highpass. Or at least a lowshelf. What're the rules generally with bass guitar's tone knobs and pickup selections? Does it differ with slap/pick/finger?




Anddd finally, does anyone ever use in-between pickup selections? Like the halfway or other ones in a 5way one? Or generally just the extreme settings?

 

[Line666]

Anddd finally, does anyone ever use in-between pickup selections? Like the halfway or other ones in a 5way one? Or generally just the extreme settings?

In between pickup selections on a guitar with a 3-way and two humbuckers means that both pickups are working in conjunction at the same time. However I usually find that the neck pickup has more influence on the tone than the bridge in this scenario, the bridge pickups more defined low end character is usually a bit overridden by the more fluid sounding neck. Both in conjunction is not something I would use for rhythm in metal, stick to the bridge, but it might be useful for solos in preference to just the neck on its own.

 

[Harry Hughes]

On stratocasters I frequently use the 2nd and 4th positions when I'm playing blues/blues rock, because they have this weird tonality to it that's been described as "quack". Dumb word I know, but it sounds good and guitarists have been using those positions for ages in bluesy stuff. The middle position is interesting too on strats.
Also bear in mind I don't play a lot of that stuff (I pretty much play death metal and Paramore style stuff, heh) and don't even own a strat (I only use strats when I'm at my mate's and they have one there) and it's not really a sound you'd want for most metal to be honest, but anything that isn't too high gain you can certainly find a use for them.
On 3 way switch guitars, I'll sometimes use the in between position for leads, never high gain rhythms though, but again it can function in a clean/lower gain rock environment.

 

[colonel kurtz]

On stratocasters I frequently use the 2nd and 4th positions

that typically means you're using the neck/middle pickup, or bridge/middle pickup

in my experience, especially if you have a crappy strat, the best tones come from one of those 2 positions

 

[XnaySaturo]

FP10's gain was at 0 (which is actually trim -4db). So my only options were lower volume on the guitar's knob or clip the DI's. Obviously I chose the former.. is there any downside to this?

I have the same problem with my Audiobox. Info would be greatly appreciated =)

 

[Metaltastic]

Bridge humbucker
All knobs maxed

done

 

[ForefrontStudio]

FP10's gain was at 0 (which is actually trim -4db). So my only options were lower volume on the guitar's knob or clip the DI's. Obviously I chose the former.. is there any downside to this?

lowering the volume on the volume knob can also roll off some high frequencies on the guitar. if you have a pad on your interface (maxi with wings work best) use that.

 

[plague_rider]

Bridge humbucker
All knobs maxed

done

+!

this is the way forward at a thundering pace

 

[aclarson]

Bridge humbucker
All knobs maxed

done

Pretty much, but don't rule anything out.

I do use the second position (of five) on my PRS often for crystal clean tones. The bridge can be a little gritty for certain things. If you're always just playing heavy, then usually the bridge is where it's at.

Occasionally if I want a nasally singy type solo sound, I roll off the tone knob a little for that 'slash-y' type lead tone, cool for some things, but keep it all the way up if you're playing at all fast.

I see no reason to ever roll off the volume knob unless you want it to sound weird, or if you're Eddie Van Halen playing live (I read that he did all his live 'clean' tone stuff this way).

 

[AllanD]

Yeah, mixing is fine. Its the tracking that I'm not so great with. I know bass guitar's have a tone knob that's kinda opposite to a guitar, it sounded like a highpass. Or at least a lowshelf. What're the rules generally with bass guitar's tone knobs and pickup selections? Does it differ with slap/pick/finger?

What you were probably experience was turning off the neck pickup, there for giving you a lighter more trebly sound. The tone knob works for the guitar and bass the same.

 

[lolzgreg]

First, thanks for the kind words.

Second, let me throw in my two cents, sorry if anything is repeated.

Rule #1: What sounds good is good.

Don't take anything as concrete. Some guitars will sound better in some positions than others. I will say that I prefer humbucking guitars to single coils in almost all cases, even for clean sounds. Humbuckers have less noise, which is a plus, have higher output in most cases, which is GENERALLY a plus (especially on this METAL forum) and they are just "rounder" sounding. I will agree with Marcus for 90 percent of cases: all knobs on 10 and bridge pickup. I don't even have a volume or tone knob on one of my guitars, it's straight to the 3 way and to the output. This can sound awesome.


For leads, I will use the middle, bridge or neck, depending on the conditions.

Also, I HIGHLY recommend you get a decent electric guitar (one of the Agile LP's from www.rondomusic.com will do great) and put a Duncan JB/Jazz in it; it will do almost anything. You could also put EMG's in it if you prefer.

I have not yet recorded a guitarist whose guitar I did not have to set up, restring and or fix. I actually have a mandatory rule that I set up the player's axes (unless they're using mine) or we can't record together. I've seen a lot of shitty pro setups (a lot more amateur ones, though), and I'm not saying I'm the best, but the tones I get are a testament that I know how to set up the guitar that is being used.

Don't reduce guitar volume to prevent clipping. Turn your preamp down. I would also recommend an awesome DI box like a Countryman Type 85.

Have the guitar player beat the shit out of the strings for a moment or two; palm mutes on the low strings, chugged hard, and hard hitting sustained notes have the largest tendency to clip. Have the guitarist play and adjust your preamp gain accordingly. My peaks end up around -3db below clipping at the loudest notes. The hotter you record your DIs, the better S/N ratio you will have. It's important to keep noise low! A guitar amplifier boosts the shit out of the first gain stage's input, so you want it clean!

 

[sgt.pepper]

Bridge humbucker
All knobs maxed

done

do you use this settings for bass too?

 

[Metaltastic]

Well bass is a lot more difficult to generalize about because there are so fucking many different combinations of pickup types, the positioning of those pickups, and tone controls. However, in my case, yes, on my Jazz Bass, because it's passive (so it can only cut, not boost) I find it sounds best when I max all the knobs (though that means there's an equal blend of bridge and neck pickups, since it's volume/volume/tone, with no toggle switch - IME all bridge-pickup in a bass makes it sound super-burpy and 70s, see Foghat's "Slow Ride" )

 

[exoslime]

I have not yet recorded a guitarist whose guitar I did not have to set up, restring and or fix. I actually have a mandatory rule that I set up the player's axes (unless they're using mine) or we can't record together. I've seen a lot of shitty pro setups (a lot more amateur ones, though), and I'm not saying I'm the best, but the tones I get are a testament that I know how to set up the guitar that is being used.

Cheers,
would you mind sharing some secrects of how you setup the guitars when you find some time for it? that would be very appreciated,

you know, there are tons of tutorials online, and each one does it a bit different, but i´m very interested in this, there are often some small details that makes the difference.
i say when i setup the guitar, its quite good, but when i give it a pro technician, its awesome.

ciao
chris

 

[zackpennington]

For passive basses, like most Fender's for example, all knobs cranked sounds best!

For active basses, like Ernie Balls for example, I crank the volume knob, and then either flatten (center) the tone knobs, or crank them all. I don't want the bass to give me too uneven of a frequency spectrum. Some basses come alive with their eq boosted, others turn to mud. It just depends.

There's a few ways to tell/figure out if a bass is passive or active. The most tried and true is if there is a battery compartment, then it's active. Also, replace the battery if it's more than a month or so old. That can degrade the sound if it's low.

Generally (but not always) active basses have flat pickup covers, whereas passive ones you can see the magnetic poles. There are exceptions to this, so I'd refer to the battery compartment as a test.

If the bass or guitar is active, use a -10,-12,-20 dB pad (on the interface) and then adjust the input gain of the preamp.

Also, with centering the tone knobs, generally, they have a resting point that's neither boosting or cutting the eq. You can feel the knob click into place. That's what I was talking about above.

Above all else, experiment. If it's sounds to bassy, turn the knobs up and down until it doesn't. Same goes for treble.

 

[updog]

My peaks end up around -3db below clipping at the loudest notes. The hotter you record your DI's, the better S/N ratio you will have.

Eh, can I ask a nooby question? I'm getting a little mixed up here - I thought one should track guitar DI's with their signals peaking at a lot less than that. Like at -12 or something. It was in some another thread, actually.

That's when I thought I had totally fucked up tracking guitars for my band; they're peaking at about -3.

 

[updog]

Eh, can I ask a nooby question? I'm getting a little mixed up here - I thought one should track guitar DI's with their signals peaking at a lot less than that. Like at -12 or something. It was in some another thread, actually.

That's when I thought I had totally fucked up tracking guitars for my band; they're peaking at about -3.

?