what difference does it make?
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ColdDarkNord
www.bragin.cz
ohh a very hard question cos we don't have capitalism for sure. we have something different... social form what we calling like "sovok"
Hmm...sovak is a new term to me. I wont ask you to explain this economic theory. I can look that up on my own. I like to try to keep music discussions closely related to music. Well done with the correction.
Since The Soviet Union fell, what sort of changes have you seen in the scenes? It seems like Russian metal is on the rise,(as it damn well should be.) I guess part of it is because of more exposure to the West and from the West.
But, because of that lack of exposure before, if you ask most westerners to name a Russian metal band, the first name that pops into our heads is Gorky Park. We didn't know about Kruiz. Maybe some of Europe did and maybe some Americans, but it was not spread out like it should have been.. Now, there's more exposure and it seems like the scene is ready to take off and become something monumental.
Still, I'm curious about the differences from the point of view of those inside. I hope that there's more freedom of speech which would help alot with expression. I hope that the music business is making more money. I hope that bands are getting alot more opportunities to play gigs and get studio time.
Basically, my question is, how do you think the growth in the Russian metal scene relate to the change in political climate?
Also, while I'm at it, is the classical scene and the music education scene still doing well?
Since The Soviet Union fell, what sort of changes have you seen in the scenes? It seems like Russian metal is on the rise,(as it damn well should be.) I guess part of it is because of more exposure to the West and from the West.
But, because of that lack of exposure before, if you ask most westerners to name a Russian metal band, the first name that pops into our heads is Gorky Park. We didn't know about Kruiz. Maybe some of Europe did and maybe some Americans, but it was not spread out like it should have been.. Now, there's more exposure and it seems like the scene is ready to take off and become something monumental.
Still, I'm curious about the differences from the point of view of those inside. I hope that there's more freedom of speech which would help alot with expression. I hope that the music business is making more money. I hope that bands are getting alot more opportunities to play gigs and get studio time.
Basically, my question is, how do you think the growth in the Russian metal scene relate to the change in political climate?
Also, while I'm at it, is the classical scene and the music education scene still doing well?
Sonm
Curse You All Men...
- Aug 14, 2002
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Metu... It is damn difficult to explain but just be aw of the fact that the political and economical chnages have nothing to do with the way people used to think. It would take ages to change that, no matter what is your country political situation is. So first russian have to change their habitude related to any kind of pop-music... Metal scene... There is NO metal scene and there will never be one, unless russians will be able to WORK on what's called MUSIC...
I understand that it's hard to explane and I understand if you don't want to do so. If you guys don't want to discuss this, no hard feelings. Just don't reply. I'll be back in a while anyway. I really am interested, though. I really love music, metal especially, lately. I'm very enthusiastic about the way it can crosse borders and, more importantly, cultural boundaries. It's tough to have forum discussions about music from cultures other than my own because everyone seems to want to consider me a typical American. I think I'm more of a typical drunk. Maybe I'm a typical drunk American, but I mean well. I've always been interested in Russia since I did a whole lot of research on your history in a World history class in highschool. (There's some bad ass history up in that biatch.) That was about 10 years ago. Now, I've gone back to school, college, to study music and I'm learning theory from a Russian lady. So, my curiosity is genuine.
You make a good point. The music has to begin to take root at a cultural level. The people will have to realise that this is not some sinful western influence, but it's a world-wide musical revolution which can help bring people together. They, also, need to realise that they can express their own culture through this. Russian culture wouldn't be impared by metal. It would be enhanced by it and it could be reborn in a big way. These are my oppinions, of course.
The baby-kissers and the dollar-grabbers won't pay it any mind until it is embraced by a large part of the public. Then, of course, they'll use it as a lever for their own gains. As you said, "no matter what is your country political situation".
Still, I think that the governmental systems do have something to do with the musical advancement of a culture. I have a friend from The Ukraine who said that, when he was a kid, his dad went to an illegal underground bootleg tape store in some guys basement to buy him a horrible copy of Pink Floyd's "The Wall." I guess the album was illegal at the time? That sure seems like politics to me. It, also, seems to me that more free trade would make something like this more difficult. As would more freedom of the press and speech.
Is the metal scene growing at all? I guess the kids would have to get into it. Are they? Is there more metal to be heard than there used to be? Is there more musical variety in general, or are things still pretty much the same as ever?
You make a good point. The music has to begin to take root at a cultural level. The people will have to realise that this is not some sinful western influence, but it's a world-wide musical revolution which can help bring people together. They, also, need to realise that they can express their own culture through this. Russian culture wouldn't be impared by metal. It would be enhanced by it and it could be reborn in a big way. These are my oppinions, of course.
The baby-kissers and the dollar-grabbers won't pay it any mind until it is embraced by a large part of the public. Then, of course, they'll use it as a lever for their own gains. As you said, "no matter what is your country political situation".
Still, I think that the governmental systems do have something to do with the musical advancement of a culture. I have a friend from The Ukraine who said that, when he was a kid, his dad went to an illegal underground bootleg tape store in some guys basement to buy him a horrible copy of Pink Floyd's "The Wall." I guess the album was illegal at the time? That sure seems like politics to me. It, also, seems to me that more free trade would make something like this more difficult. As would more freedom of the press and speech.
Is the metal scene growing at all? I guess the kids would have to get into it. Are they? Is there more metal to be heard than there used to be? Is there more musical variety in general, or are things still pretty much the same as ever?
Sonm
Curse You All Men...
- Aug 14, 2002
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Hehe! I said it is difficult to explain but that doesn't mean I don't want and conversations and iscussions about it. But you know... Personally, I think Russia is a different world. You can talk to russians, you can have friends from Russia, but it will always stay a different world and I do not know why. I can feel it... I am 100% russian but I live abroad. Strangly enough people are splited in there into two parts... The first one is - clever ones and the second is - ass holes... Figuratively speaking, of course. Let's say the distribution shows that moral properties are changing but not smoothly. Somewhere you can feel some kind of a jump. May be we are not unique in this, but the most important feature is that those ass holes do not know "their place". The whole country is ruled by the faceless mr. Gray... Putin is doing a great job though, but that's damn difficult to turn this huge ship. Now, why I am saying that... Because even in music (except classical music) ass holes dominates. They have a power to pull the ropes making the whole situation to change in the way they want to. So, there is NO METAL SCENE... Maybe a couple of good bands, no more than 5 though. And, therefore, we are able to see clearly enough that despite the country entered the Capitalistic World, brains remain to dwell in the mire of torpor and I have no idea what will change that... I was dealing with so called russian metal scene and I know how it goes... I hate to say hopeless, but I wouldn't be too far from the truth if I say so... Cheers
Heh. Right on. I'm just trying not to be a pain in the ass. Apparently, we drunken yanks play that role far better than we know.
Y'all do seem to be a rather stubborn people. I mean no offense. I just mean that Russians seem to be very set in their ways. Then there's the fact that whenever change comes, the peasants seem to get thoroughly fucked over regardless. Are you familiar with the phrase "out of the frying pan and into the fryer"? On top of that you add the anti-West propaganda machine finely tuned by the Soviets....I guess I can understand metal not being embraced on a broad scale.
It must be frustrating and it's a damn shame. Good luck overcoming that, Russia.
For the clever people and the assholes, if those aren't far too often the same people, then, I guess the world is all new to me. You mean that your country is not run by wall to wall clever assholes? I find that hard to believe. :]
Y'all do seem to be a rather stubborn people. I mean no offense. I just mean that Russians seem to be very set in their ways. Then there's the fact that whenever change comes, the peasants seem to get thoroughly fucked over regardless. Are you familiar with the phrase "out of the frying pan and into the fryer"? On top of that you add the anti-West propaganda machine finely tuned by the Soviets....I guess I can understand metal not being embraced on a broad scale.
It must be frustrating and it's a damn shame. Good luck overcoming that, Russia.
For the clever people and the assholes, if those aren't far too often the same people, then, I guess the world is all new to me. You mean that your country is not run by wall to wall clever assholes? I find that hard to believe. :]
Sonm
Curse You All Men...
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metu, you rule
! I was born in 1977 and do not remember any anti-West propaganda! Believe me, that's a different world But I am keep on saying that the only difference capitalism makes is the fact that now it is much easier to find a good guitar, drums, any instrument And probably you can have your own ideology... Nobody is gonna give a shit about that. It is like you gave a light and water to the ground but nothing will ever grow up if there was no seed. You get the point? Conditions have to be applied to something Having a road doesn't imply having a car Cheers. P.S. That's my opinion thoughHaha! Thank you very much! I've got a HUGE smile on my face right now! I was worried that I had gone too far. You're the one who fuckin' rules! :]
There's a saying over here, (like most of my culture, I have no idea from where it comes,) "you can lead a horse to water, but, you can't make him drink." Yup, I get the point.
Sort of off topic, but my music teacher was trying to figure what an american version would be to "lost an elephant." She came up with "lost in the woods", and I thought that would do. Since then, I've thought of a better one and I haven't told her yet. It's, "can't see the forest through the trees." I keep meaning to tell her, but I forget.
I was born in '76 myself. I remember Reagan spewing a bunch of bullshit calling the USSR "the evil empire." But, then, I remember that show, where was it, Moscow? Ozzy, Motly Crue and some other clowns? That seemed so cool. It seems to me that it was a major statement for the way music can cut through the bullshit and even the worst of enemies can rock out together.
Easier to buy gear and more freedom of ideology seem like big deals to me. Those seem like very good seeds. If you combine that with the classical crop which always comes in, and a uniquely Russian flavor...I think Russia could have one of the best scenes ever in a few years.
Keeping with that theme...ColdDarkNord...keep up the good work. Patience and determination will get you to your goals. The scene needs people like you in a big way. Props...aka...respect.
There's a saying over here, (like most of my culture, I have no idea from where it comes,) "you can lead a horse to water, but, you can't make him drink." Yup, I get the point.
Sort of off topic, but my music teacher was trying to figure what an american version would be to "lost an elephant." She came up with "lost in the woods", and I thought that would do. Since then, I've thought of a better one and I haven't told her yet. It's, "can't see the forest through the trees." I keep meaning to tell her, but I forget.
I was born in '76 myself. I remember Reagan spewing a bunch of bullshit calling the USSR "the evil empire." But, then, I remember that show, where was it, Moscow? Ozzy, Motly Crue and some other clowns? That seemed so cool. It seems to me that it was a major statement for the way music can cut through the bullshit and even the worst of enemies can rock out together.
Easier to buy gear and more freedom of ideology seem like big deals to me. Those seem like very good seeds. If you combine that with the classical crop which always comes in, and a uniquely Russian flavor...I think Russia could have one of the best scenes ever in a few years.
Keeping with that theme...ColdDarkNord...keep up the good work. Patience and determination will get you to your goals. The scene needs people like you in a big way. Props...aka...respect.
Well, that last post of mine was a mess. My cheap red whine buzz is a partial explanation, but no excuse.
Did you think I forgot with whom I was having this discussion? No way. You rule, Sonm. You're by far my favorite member of this forum.
I give "props" to ColdDarkNord for a few reasons. First of all, for being a mod of this forum. It's a thankless job and a pain in the ass. Also, for his new sig with the band website banners. My third reason is suspect. I've done what I try like hell not to do. I've assumed. (when you ASSUME, you make an ASS of U and ME.) I've assumed that he...nuts to third person.
Hey, ColdDarkNord, do you work on some of those websites yourself?
Did you think I forgot with whom I was having this discussion? No way. You rule, Sonm. You're by far my favorite member of this forum.
I give "props" to ColdDarkNord for a few reasons. First of all, for being a mod of this forum. It's a thankless job and a pain in the ass. Also, for his new sig with the band website banners. My third reason is suspect. I've done what I try like hell not to do. I've assumed. (when you ASSUME, you make an ASS of U and ME.) I've assumed that he...nuts to third person.
Hey, ColdDarkNord, do you work on some of those websites yourself?
ColdDarkNord
www.bragin.cz
metu said:
Hej Metu!
ALL OF THEM IS MY!!! *demonic guffaw*
(otherwise why the hell i need to promote them?
)I should say I just love many bands from Russia.
First I listen to Mental Home..then I also have tried bands like Cumdeo, Radigost, S.C.A.L.P, Satarial, Butterfly Temple, and many others former USSR bands.
First I listen to Mental Home..then I also have tried bands like Cumdeo, Radigost, S.C.A.L.P, Satarial, Butterfly Temple, and many others former USSR bands.
I found something related and very interesting to me. It's a whole bunch of writing about how composers under the soviets used coded messages, of a sort, to express how they really felt about things they weren't supposed to mention.
If you read it, please let me/us know what you think.
music under soviet rule
http://www.siue.edu/~aho/musov/musov.html
If you read it, please let me/us know what you think.
music under soviet rule
http://www.siue.edu/~aho/musov/musov.html
Oh, and I also wondered how you guys view the bombardment of american marketing that I assume you're now getting.
Well, it's hard to say. I mean, technically, Russians have gotten the complete (say, symbolic) freedom to do what they want.. So that should be a plus, right? Well, not much has changed ever since the 80s, though.. I mean, back in the 80s it was MORE underground than it is now - much more, but as far as talent or scene goes.. It hasn't got any better .
Western music (and metal is obvious western) was never encouraged during the soviet regime.. You could say it was "banned" - but it really wasn't. The government just had the right to veto any band's (both western and local) production within the country.. So by "banning" it meant "not producing..." But still, millions of people had access to it simply by sharing it - though you wouldn't find any of that shit in stores, you WOULD find it from people (the glaring minority) that, say, have been out of the country for whatever reason and were able to buy some western stuff and "smuggle" it into the country.. You wouldn't go to jail just for having a Pink Floyd record - but it's still similar to, say, religion. If you went to a church or a mosque (and we didn't have many of those back then), you wouldn't go to jail, no - but it WOULD probably have a negative effect on your comparty career - and most REAL careers had a lot to do with the comparty.. But most Soviets back then weren't even in the communist party - so they had nothing to worry about.. But still, the society in general disapproved it when you were waaaay too much into Western culture.. And it was hard not to be in it - I mean, what kind of alternatives did USSR offer? Veselye Rebyata? Lyev Leschenko? I mean, there were some good bards like Vysotskiy and such.. But still, bards notwithstanding, Zeppelin always kicked Leschenko's rear. It was a no contest.
.Western music (and metal is obvious western) was never encouraged during the soviet regime.. You could say it was "banned" - but it really wasn't. The government just had the right to veto any band's (both western and local) production within the country.. So by "banning" it meant "not producing..." But still, millions of people had access to it simply by sharing it - though you wouldn't find any of that shit in stores, you WOULD find it from people (the glaring minority) that, say, have been out of the country for whatever reason and were able to buy some western stuff and "smuggle" it into the country.. You wouldn't go to jail just for having a Pink Floyd record - but it's still similar to, say, religion. If you went to a church or a mosque (and we didn't have many of those back then), you wouldn't go to jail, no - but it WOULD probably have a negative effect on your comparty career - and most REAL careers had a lot to do with the comparty.. But most Soviets back then weren't even in the communist party - so they had nothing to worry about.. But still, the society in general disapproved it when you were waaaay too much into Western culture.. And it was hard not to be in it - I mean, what kind of alternatives did USSR offer? Veselye Rebyata? Lyev Leschenko? I mean, there were some good bards like Vysotskiy and such.. But still, bards notwithstanding, Zeppelin always kicked Leschenko's rear. It was a no contest
.Hey, great post. You've shed a lot of light on the subject.
I think you make a very good point when mentioning a lack of an alternative.
Thanks for that post. :]
I think you make a very good point when mentioning a lack of an alternative.
Thanks for that post. :]
I've been thinking about this. You have more freedom of speech now, but Gorbachev started that back in the 80s. That was the escence of parastoyka, right?
So the laws to allow complaints toward the government were a major step. But I do understand that it's more complicated than that. Now, I'd like to understand a bit more about this angle. If some you wrote a song against Putin, would you be concerned about any backlash at all? If you wrote a song against Kalashnikov, would you be taking a career risk? If you sang a song in praise of Kalashnikov, would you have a better chance of being on Russian tv, radio and all that?
I realise I misunderstand far more than I know.
So the laws to allow complaints toward the government were a major step. But I do understand that it's more complicated than that. Now, I'd like to understand a bit more about this angle. If some you wrote a song against Putin, would you be concerned about any backlash at all? If you wrote a song against Kalashnikov, would you be taking a career risk? If you sang a song in praise of Kalashnikov, would you have a better chance of being on Russian tv, radio and all that?
I realise I misunderstand far more than I know.
