What is the deal with this genre?

I've given a lot of though on this topic lately as my musical tastes have been drifting beyond my norms. It does seem that we have reached a point that todays bands and music are very much paint by numbers or cookie cutterish in nature. I'm sure that some may start with the intention of sounding "different", being "original" - quite frankly, don't all artist strive to find their own niche, but once they realize what sells, or they fall under the grasp of suits/management types, they go with the flow to take their shot at fame.

Sometimes, seems much more so these days, bands seem to be placed in the label machine, sent to the same studios depending on label, setup to work with the same engineer/producer as all the other bands sort of like a farm. What comes out the other end of the machine is more of the labels/engineer/producers vision of what sounds good, what constitutes a popular example of a particular genre. with this in mind it's no wonder so much of modern music lacks that spark, that magical feeling you get when you hear a band and you know exactly who they are.

Recently I've been listening to a lot of my back catalog of discs and music from long ago (I'm 42 so my library consists of quite a broad amount of older music - not only metal, but pop, rock, classic rock, ...) and I find many of the gems in my collection are ones that quite frankly I either don't know or can't remember the particular producer/engineer/label. I have to look it up to see who did the work - and in many cases they are pretty much unknowns, not the biggies of any particular genre. In many of these cases, I think these discs sound like a band recording their vision, not a particular non-band members vision. There is individuality, the sounds utilized are unique, not likely to be heard on 12 other discs that came out in a particular year. Sure, sample replacement, similar amps, and even the same engineer may have been used, but in the end, these discs have an individual flair, they sound like the individual band, the individual songs that breath and capture my interest.

Perhaps I am getting old, perhaps my tastes have changed (or perhaps they have reverted somewhat), but I'm honestly dismayed by the current slew of music being pushed out the ass end of the music industry today - the fact that I can't distinguish one band from another, one band member his replacement from disc to disc. Oh well, a few gems do come along - usually very early in a bands career, or near the end, but I can always go back through that large library I have and find a new gem while trudging through stuff I wonder why i bought in the first place.

Just my semi rant about today's musical environment. Oh yes, and I did walk up hill both ways to school in a blizzard.
 
I've given a lot of though on this topic lately as my musical tastes have been drifting beyond my norms. It does seem that we have reached a point that todays bands and music are very much paint by numbers or cookie cutterish in nature. I'm sure that some may start with the intention of sounding "different", being "original" - quite frankly, don't all artist strive to find their own niche, but once they realize what sells, or they fall under the grasp of suits/management types, they go with the flow to take their shot at fame.

Sometimes, seems much more so these days, bands seem to be placed in the label machine, sent to the same studios depending on label, setup to work with the same engineer/producer as all the other bands sort of like a farm. What comes out the other end of the machine is more of the labels/engineer/producers vision of what sounds good, what constitutes a popular example of a particular genre. with this in mind it's no wonder so much of modern music lacks that spark, that magical feeling you get when you hear a band and you know exactly who they are.

Recently I've been listening to a lot of my back catalog of discs and music from long ago (I'm 42 so my library consists of quite a broad amount of older music - not only metal, but pop, rock, classic rock, ...) and I find many of the gems in my collection are ones that quite frankly I either don't know or can't remember the particular producer/engineer/label. I have to look it up to see who did the work - and in many cases they are pretty much unknowns, not the biggies of any particular genre. In many of these cases, I think these discs sound like a band recording their vision, not a particular non-band members vision. There is individuality, the sounds utilized are unique, not likely to be heard on 12 other discs that came out in a particular year. Sure, sample replacement, similar amps, and even the same engineer may have been used, but in the end, these discs have an individual flair, they sound like the individual band, the individual songs that breath and capture my interest.

Perhaps I am getting old, perhaps my tastes have changed (or perhaps they have reverted somewhat), but I'm honestly dismayed by the current slew of music being pushed out the ass end of the music industry today - the fact that I can't distinguish one band from another, one band member his replacement from disc to disc. Oh well, a few gems do come along - usually very early in a bands career, or near the end, but I can always go back through that large library I have and find a new gem while trudging through stuff I wonder why i bought in the first place.

Just my semi rant about today's musical environment. Oh yes, and I did walk up hill both ways to school in a blizzard.

I have to agree on this one... again :D
But, it's not only the labe/manager/producer/engineer.
Like abt said... it's also the bands fault.
Not 100%, but there are a lot of bands that have a lot of potential, but they go to a studio and say "hey brah, we wanna sound like that defil wearz prada, dogg"
FYI, it's just an example.
But like I already said, I have to agree with what Jind says.
I know a lot of people that also say, "yo dude you should check these guys out, they sound like blablabla, or whatever..." people always want to follow what's "in"... I understand... but what happened with originality?
Though I'm a big fan of Of Machines, Oceana, TDWP, etc... don't get me wrong, I love those bands! But they are original! Of course nobody is 100% original, but they've created a sound and made it their own (like Of Machines), they kept on improving this sound (like TDWP) or started changing, but still in a good way (Oceana).
And finally, I'm gonna end my post right here with something cloy26 said: it's not only in this century that things like this are happening.
It's not only that single studio that keeps reproducing the same same sounds... keep that in mind =)
 
To all of you who are bashing on Chango, please check the new Sleeping With Sirens track.
It's amazing.
And yes, you can hear that Cameron produced it, so who cares, this song is amazing!
 
NONE of his snares sound the same to me in any way. You need new speakers. For snares that sound the same see Chris Lord Alge and Andy Wallace.That is the same snare on every track. None of Bendeth's records sound the same to me at all.



It's not just this genre, for example on a bunch of David Bendeth (Paramore, Breaking Benjamin)'s recordings you will hear the exact same snare drum.
 
NONE of his snares sound the same to me in any way. You need new speakers. For snares that sound the same see Chris Lord Alge and Andy Wallace.That is the same snare on every track. None of Bendeth's records sound the same to me at all.


umm the i see stars snare and the broadway snare sound the same to me? and he uses the same samples. my friends recorded with him recently and those are some samples he made.
 
I really don't get what peoples problems are with this genre of music. Here's my problem with half the people on this board coming on here and bashing it. These producers are making INFINITELY more money than a lot of users on this forum (also a lot of the ones complaining) and so honestly, I really don't see where the problem is. The 14-21 age group is listening to this stuff at the moment, and studios like this and Joey's are recording bands that cater to that age group. Why do you care what the production sounds like. The bottom line is that the people there are getting paid...likely more than any of you. I am not a fanboy or whatever, I am just getting sick of everyone bashing this genre and these producers. How can they help it if the band comes in and says "I want to sound like TDWP" or "I want to sound like *Insert Sturgis produced band here*. In my opinion, the fact of the matter is that this studio is making a lot more money than 90% of this forum, so I think it doesn't really come down to blandness, rather that jealousy is taking over because the "raw" sound that metal used to have isn't there any more. Grow a pair, and start recording bands like that. You think it's a fad? I think it's here to last.
 
That's why when it hits album time for my band ---

*NO slate
*Mesa Mark IV & Randall V2
*Master tracks not limited to buggery


:) Should be fun! And I know it's going to sound good, cause Ermz should be at the desk for it hahaha!
 
I really don't get what peoples problems are with this genre of music. Here's my problem with half the people on this board coming on here and bashing it. These producers are making INFINITELY more money than a lot of users on this forum (also a lot of the ones complaining) and so honestly, I really don't see where the problem is. The 14-21 age group is listening to this stuff at the moment, and studios like this and Joey's are recording bands that cater to that age group. Why do you care what the production sounds like. The bottom line is that the people there are getting paid...likely more than any of you. I am not a fanboy or whatever, I am just getting sick of everyone bashing this genre and these producers. How can they help it if the band comes in and says "I want to sound like TDWP" or "I want to sound like *Insert Sturgis produced band here*. In my opinion, the fact of the matter is that this studio is making a lot more money than 90% of this forum, so I think it doesn't really come down to blandness, rather that jealousy is taking over because the "raw" sound that metal used to have isn't there any more. Grow a pair, and start recording bands like that. You think it's a fad? I think it's here to last.

Personally, I don't think your post holds any water, because not every one here is a full time engineer and has their money on this. I don't, this is a hobby to me, but I see the problems that have been cause due to people such as Joey etc.

That guitar editing thread definitely opened my eyes to what's really happening behind the scenes these days, and I have no issue with Sturgis doing that, but I know I'm steering WAY clear of anyone who wishes to record that way.

There is more emphasis on the recording/ editing then there is on the music.

Say what you like, but garbage like attack attack shouldn't exist, but sure, it has the most pristine recording thanks to Joey... It's obviously been edited to the dickhouse as established already, but it is what it is.

And for me, that's not what it's about. There is definitely a niche for it, and hopefully everyone can remember that. It's a niche he sits in, not everyone has to do it that way etc.

Ermin for one changes his mixes almost every band he records. I think everyone should strive for that and I know a lot here do!

Just keep doing it your own way, and I'm sure the uber edited hollywood of recordings will eventually lose it's zazz haha!
 
I'm sure the uber edited hollywood of recordings will eventually lose it's zazz haha!

I can agree with a few things you said.

However, why does it matter whether people do it for hobby or whatever. It doesn't matter. You still do it! You can't go telling me that people here HONESTLY aren't doing this to try and break into the industry. I am sure there are a few who are purely hobby based, however i can't think that it's more than a few. That's why it matters. No one, and I repeat NO ONE, should be able to bash this studio in the topic now, or Joey based on how he does things. Why? Because they both have their names on a lot of releases world wide, and make a LOT more money than anyone striving on here will likely see for this. Why does this matter? Because what these guys are doing WORKS. It's not just a niche man, I don't know how you can't see that. Look at how big Prada is now for example. You can't deny that popularity is partially in part to the way that Joey reproduced their music from band to album.

The other part is what i quoted above. Exactly what you said, doesn't really make sense. The "uber-edited hollywood of recordings"??? That is how things are done now, even in major label bands. That's how things are done. Rock does it, metal does it, metalcore does it etc etc. The biggest difference I would see would be acoustic drum sounds, but honestly, in a genre where you have fairly fast double kicks etc, it is hard to track the kick without triggering it. It can be said about the snare as well.

I really wish the people of this forum would just give up on bashing studios like this one, and like Joey's and the others like it. They are doing their thing, and making it work for them, and that can be seen in the music industry. These guys are paving the way for the future.
 
SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT JOEY.

Let the man do what he does. This horse has been beat to death a million times in a million different threads.
 
different mixing / production sounds of mine:

miss may i - apologies are for the weak : dryer higher pitched snare, quicker kick with shorter release, louder and more up front guitars
before their eyes - untouchable : radio rock drum sounds, softer but warmer guitar work, vocals way up front
tdwp - branches : thick kick with lots of bottom end, fairly dry snare, natural cymbal work with very little compression, confident guitars, with transparent sounding eq, really dry screaming
a plea for purging : older style kick with competely different kick eq, more natural snare sound and dryer than most my work, natural cymbal work, quad track guitars with lower tunings and different tones than usual
oceano - depths : whole mix is pretty raw for me, everything's pretty natural and simplistic, touch of production here and there, and lots of reverb automation on the vocals
lets get it - digital spaces : pop production, pretty different from everything i do / have done

compare those recordings, and you'll see, we're not all cookie cutters around here
 
different mixing / production sounds of mine:

miss may i - apologies are for the weak : dryer higher pitched snare, quicker kick with shorter release, louder and more up front guitars
before their eyes - untouchable : radio rock drum sounds, softer but warmer guitar work, vocals way up front
tdwp - branches : thick kick with lots of bottom end, fairly dry snare, natural cymbal work with very little compression, confident guitars, with transparent sounding eq, really dry screaming
a plea for purging : older style kick with competely different kick eq, more natural snare sound and dryer than most my work, natural cymbal work, quad track guitars with lower tunings and different tones than usual
oceano - depths : whole mix is pretty raw for me, everything's pretty natural and simplistic, touch of production here and there, and lots of reverb automation on the vocals
lets get it - digital spaces : pop production, pretty different from everything i do / have done

compare those recordings, and you'll see, we're not all cookie cutters around here


+1
 
different mixing / production sounds of mine:

miss may i - apologies are for the weak : dryer higher pitched snare, quicker kick with shorter release, louder and more up front guitars
before their eyes - untouchable : radio rock drum sounds, softer but warmer guitar work, vocals way up front
tdwp - branches : thick kick with lots of bottom end, fairly dry snare, natural cymbal work with very little compression, confident guitars, with transparent sounding eq, really dry screaming
a plea for purging : older style kick with competely different kick eq, more natural snare sound and dryer than most my work, natural cymbal work, quad track guitars with lower tunings and different tones than usual
oceano - depths : whole mix is pretty raw for me, everything's pretty natural and simplistic, touch of production here and there, and lots of reverb automation on the vocals
lets get it - digital spaces : pop production, pretty different from everything i do / have done

compare those recordings, and you'll see, we're not all cookie cutters around here


PLUS 1 EFFING MILLION!!!
 
I can agree with a few things you said.

However, why does it matter whether people do it for hobby or whatever. It doesn't matter. You still do it! You can't go telling me that people here HONESTLY aren't doing this to try and break into the industry. I am sure there are a few who are purely hobby based, however i can't think that it's more than a few. That's why it matters. No one, and I repeat NO ONE, should be able to bash this studio in the topic now, or Joey based on how he does things. Why? Because they both have their names on a lot of releases world wide, and make a LOT more money than anyone striving on here will likely see for this. Why does this matter? Because what these guys are doing WORKS. It's not just a niche man, I don't know how you can't see that. Look at how big Prada is now for example. You can't deny that popularity is partially in part to the way that Joey reproduced their music from band to album.

The other part is what i quoted above. Exactly what you said, doesn't really make sense. The "uber-edited hollywood of recordings"??? That is how things are done now, even in major label bands. That's how things are done. Rock does it, metal does it, metalcore does it etc etc. The biggest difference I would see would be acoustic drum sounds, but honestly, in a genre where you have fairly fast double kicks etc, it is hard to track the kick without triggering it. It can be said about the snare as well.

I really wish the people of this forum would just give up on bashing studios like this one, and like Joey's and the others like it. They are doing their thing, and making it work for them, and that can be seen in the music industry. These guys are paving the way for the future.

To simply clarify something, I was a little annoyed when I posted this thread (which was quite a while back.) But I support the "new" approach to recording full force. If I see a band that isn't very good, I will toss some new ideas out there, including a very edited way of tracking.

This thread was somewhat old, no reason to dig it back up. What you are saying in your post has been addressed a million times by many different people. The people that embrace it already embrace it. the ones who don't, they won't. So just let it go.
 
I don't think my point was wrong and I think you twisted it somewhere there.

I'm not saying joeys shit or anyone else like that is bad sounding etc. By all means it sounds great etc. But it's the shit wrapped in leather that my issue consists of...

I'm pointing out that YES technology was limited back in the day, but bands back then made the music speak for itself.

Listening to music for such a time, and no disrespect to Joey, but the bands he does seem to lose steam fairly quickly and being a fad is something we can agree on. And that's not bad towards Joey, the dudes making his money of course :p

But again, the MIX is speaking for music that doesn't necessarily exist the way it sounds. And I think that's the problem. It's moreso the bands causing this problem to begin with, but it sucks when it hits the studio and then continues..

Anyways, i've hit ranting point, I'm not going to keep doing this :)