Where Eagles Dare!

[rabies]

Alright folks,

First mix of Where Eagles Dare karaoke is up on Maidenman's Myplay locker.

I crave comments. positive, negative, indifference, I don't care..as long as I know you listened!

Players:
Drums - Maidenman
Bass - Constantine
Guitar - Rabies
Special credit to Hyde. His original guitar track influenced me greatly, and he pretty much pointed out how the song should be played. I tried to use your original track Hyde, but could not get around the tuning issue and the slowdown at the end.

Maidenman. I noticed late in the mixing that your crash cymbals really are low in the mix. I tried to fix it (with bad results), but they were very low in your original recording.

I think this is the hardest song I've recorded to date...but fun to mix.

 

[Eddies cellmate]

I'll go get it now Rabs.

It isn't a final mix yet, right?

 

[rabies]

It's final if nobody has suggestions on how to make it better. =)

Final takes though. If there are playing issues, I don't think its worth fixing anymore. Its a tough song. I noticed that the 3 players all had at least 1 major flub. I think its the first flub I've ever heard MM make! (sorry MM).

 

[Eddies cellmate]

I'm listening right now Rabs, but I don't really want to try to think of any suggestions just yet, because I want to wait until I can crank it up more tomorrow. (Wife's sleeping)

Sounds like the parts are meshing well so far.

Drums maybe could use a bit of EQ beefing up, but again I'm only playing it softly....

I'll comment more tomorrow.

BTW-Have you listened to any of the songs on the website since I re-encoded them? I could use some feedback as to how well they sound and how well they "stream" when you get a chance.

 

[Eddies cellmate]

Sounded like a solid mix to me Rabs.

I might have an EQ suggestion or two tomorrow, but other than a minor tweak here or there I'd say it's pretty much complete.

More tomorrow.

 

[rabies]

Good. Good.

EQ suggestions is mostly what I am looking for. It's tough to get a mix that sounds consistant accross different speakers/headphones.

I have not looked at the new website. The one that is linked on your profile is awful. It pops a couple hundred ads...so I stay away. I know you moved it to a UM hosted site, but I don't know the link.

 

[Eddy]

img.ultimatemetal.com

You haven't looked closely enough.

 

[jim]

Comments on the mix:

Drums seem tinny and a bit back in the mix. Might just be my headphone/computer.

Opening guitar riffs don't seem to be playing the triplets. The very first note of the song is played 3 times, the second note is played twice...

ba ba ba bam bam ba ba ba bam bam etc. etc.

Maybe your doing it but it isn't coming across..

Leads are killer!

Bass might be a bit back in the mix, or perhaps getting lost in the EQ spectrum its in.

These are all minor comments... in general this is a great track.

 

[jim]

After closer inspection, it appears you start with the triplet, but either end up playing doubles or the middle note is getting lost somewhere....

 

[rabies]

You completely lost me on the guitar riff thing. If you mean the drone on the low E string in the main riff...you are right. It is always triplets...and I play it as such. However, as I mentioned, playing this song is very hard. It may be that that I muddled it on occasion and it got lost in the mix. The rhythm playing is sloppy in general. It is a very, very percussive song. Not my forte.

Bass is a bit back in the mix. It was too boomy. I EQ'd the heck out of it to sit right below the guitar in the frequency..but It was still 'boomy'.

Compression I ran probably killed the drums a bit. I'll lay off on mix two and see if you like that better.

So...the leads are killer. Cool. How about the effects under the leads. I had a hard time balancing those.

Thanks a ton for the comments guys. Keep em coming.

 

[Eddies cellmate]

Ok Rabs, I've gotten a better listen to it now. These are more "thoughts" than "suggestions" because like any mixing idea it's hard to know what works until you try it, and also because it's just things I might try, which of course is a matter of style.

1. I might try duplicating each of the two rhythm guitar tracks, adding reverb or chorus to add "space" to the duplicated tracks, then panning them far left and far right to widen the overall track. I'd do this to hope to make the overall sound "thicker". Might EQ them a bit, adding a bit of low mids to maybe make them sound a bit heavier.

2. Maybe duplicate the bass track also, and place them just left and right of center (just outside of the drums, assuming they're dead center). I'd try adding either chorus or reverb (or anything to add a bit of space) to one. Again, maybe EQ a bit of heaviness into it if possible.

3. I'd again duplicate the drum track, and place them side by side just left and right of center. I'd try adding reverb (or something) to one for space. I'd EQ again, maybe scooping the mids and high mids some to make room for a little more bass drum. I'd probably try to boost some of the lowest frequencies to see if I could get the bass drum to "boom" a little.

Now again, I get a little crazy when mixing, so maybe this is just a bunch of nonsense. The track sounds good as is, and if there was anything I'd nitpick it'd be a bit of a lack of "space" and "punchy heaviness". If that makes any sense.

Overall, very well done, though. Like I said some of my suggestions might not really be possible or even work at all so take it with a 50lb. grain of salt. Just some random thoughts on things I might try.

 

[Eddies cellmate]

Oh, I wanted to add that I like to duplicate the tracks when possible so I have one "dry" (or close to dry) track, and one to fool around with. This way, if the "wet" track sounds good but is too overwhelming, it can be toned down just by lower it's level in the mix (or raising the dry one). Sometimes makes for a nice, thick, balanced track.

 

[rabies]

..I only say that because if you knew what I DID do to the track, you would find it kinda funny .....so..I guess..let me explain:

1. Both rhythm guitars were double-tracked. Spatially set apart so one on each side was panned hard left and right and the doubled track set about 80% left and right. Reverb was then applied to both tracks, and all 4 tracks were EQd to hell to boost the mids. Mostly higher mids to allow the bass to come through more....also to get it closer to the sound on the original.

2. Bass track is dead center. moving it left or right is a good idea. An enourmous amount of reverb was added. I mean and ENORMOUS amount..and chorus. Constantine's track is very dry and very, very low end. I EQd a lot of the low end out. Sounds like this was a bad move overall. I thought it 'boomed' way too much. I will tone this done on mix 2.

3. Drums were not dupe tracked (another good idea), but were heavily scooped on mids. Most notably, the kick drum was boosted considerably.

Your comments are good stuff. This is why I hang around here..to get great opinions. You obviously like more modern mixing tendencies then. When I listen to the original, there is very little 'spacing' ...it sounds very compressed. I was trying to mimic that. Or am I going crazy? Does the original have a lot of 'space'? Maybe I don't know exactly waht you mean..


Jim - listening back..I see what you mean..but I was right..its definately my sloppy playing..probably mixed in with the fact that I doubled each rhythm guitar..which muddied it over.

 

[Medsy]

Hey rabs...

Dude... i like it...!!! Im never as thorough (sp?) as my fellow guilders when reviewing a mix but ill add my two cents as i like it when you guys comment back on my stuff so its all good for all of us...!!

TONE...!!! LOVED IT..... very true to the original..... sorta vintage feel.... playing was pretty cool considering the degree of difficulty here..... the odd fluffed note on the triplets but totally understandable.....

My main gripe has gotta be the drum tone..... I agree with EC totally ......Fish around in the spectrum for the ' snare frequency ' and cut it right down..... same deal with the ' kick feq ' and boost it up..... These are what i would try and i always like to flood my drums with reverb.... and then burry the excess verb in the mix....

Leads are awesome...great feel and tones....

If u compare this to the original.... its pretty farkin close.... I liked it...!!!

 

[rabies]

Man..I am kinda getting bummed.

I am sitting here on the (virtual) mixing board, going over changing EQ settings, pans, etc....and I cannot help but think to myself as I make these changes.. 'Man...it would so f'ing cool if EC, MM, Jim, hell...all you guys were sitting right here next to me taking a vote on what sounds cool as the knobs twist and turn.'

Wouldn't that kick ass? All sitting around the mixing board voicing opinions on the final mix?

 

[Medsy]

I posted my last post before i read your last post then rabs.....!!!

I was gonna harp on a lil bit more about my last line in the previous post but then deleted it....it would of read as this....

I AGREE... this is a very close thing to the ' older ' mixing techniques maiden used back then......And any attempts to use modern day mixing would of completely been unfaithful to an exact copy of the original like u set out to acheive.....!!!

Great minds..... lol.....

 

[rabies]

So meds..are you saying snares need to come down in volume..or up? I am not quite sure. I understand you do want kicks up.

 

[Medsy]

ummm...... volume wise its alil overpowering compared to the rest of the kit.....

And id probaly just take the 'shrill trebly edge' off it...sorta flatten it down a lil.... Maybe all it needs is a lil reverb.... make it less stacatto....

But then again..... the more i listen to your track rabs.... i see your point of view and the interpretation you were aiming for.....

Its hard and generally why i dont nitpick too often....were all different...have different angles of interpretations...... and at the end of the day...all mixing aside..... i really dig the pure musictivity of it all...!!!!

Farkin rock on guilders...

 

[rabies]

Snare down...less trill on the snare...reverb. Check.

I do need reverb..right now, I think the track is dry in that respect.

I respect your opinion Meds. If everybody says the kick is low, or the drums too tiny, its goes beyond just an opinion and kinda becomes a fact.

Besides, we are a 'band' so everybodies opinions count. The mixer should not have dictator rights!

Expect Mix#2 in a day or so.

 

[Constantine]

I love it.
Great job guys.
Take Care
Constantine