While we're at it... Sidechaining in Pro Tools?

[AudioPhile777]

Cool.

Thanks for the answer... very detailed.

Much appreciation.

 

[James Murphy]

My comment wasn't directed to you at all... It was in response to this - "I think I have a good grasp of the basics... I wanted to try using the side chain to release my snare because I tend to have tons of bleed on that track from cymbals and hihat... "

Which means that he obviously does not have a good grasp of the basics. A gate will never solve this problem, because there's still gonna be bleed on the snare hits when the gate opens up. Come to think of it, gating a snare track with lots of bleed is extremely frustrating because more often than not it will sound even shittier than it would without gating.

Learning how to properly mic drums is way more important than learning to use a gate w/sidechaining in the grand scheme of things.

Everything you said about gating is 100% correct, but it's still running before walking for this particular case. So my previous post should've said, "James Murphy just schooled you on your question of sidechain gating techniques, but that's not the solution to your problems - proper micing is."

if you had read backwards a bit you'd have seen my first post in this thread:

"problem here is really that your trying to run before you can walk solidly... back to basics... that's the way to go. get down all the concepts on a fundamental level, read your manuals thoroughly and practice. then you'll never have to ask a question like this one... rather you'll be asking better questions like, "what's a creative way some of you use side-chaining?". that is the real benefit of a forum like this."

One other thing - I keep seeing all of these different numbers for the Haas effect on the net, but I learned it was sub 18ms and that seems to be the number if you experiment with it.

well i didn't learn about the Haas effect on the net, i'm in my late 30's and have been engineering since the very dawn of the average person having some kind of internet connection. i first learned about it by reading a text book on acoustics in 1990 or so... and i have expiremented with it, extensively, and you're right it's really 18-20ms or so..... for percussive sounds that is... it's more, up to 30-35ms or so, for sounds with less defined or slower attacks.

 

[James Murphy]

it's also worth mentioning that the exact numbers are really determined by each individual ear/brain... some will hear a distinct repeat on a given percussive sound for instance at 20ms while some will not, so to a certain degree pinpointing the the exact number of milliseconds that must exist between one sound and another same/similar sound before they are heard as destinct and separate is somewhat subjective.

 

[metalkingdom]

well i didn't learn about the Haas effect on the net, i'm in my late 30's and have been engineering since the very dawn of the average person having some kind of internet connection.

I know your history... Maybe you forgot that I'm probably your biggest fan here!

it's also worth mentioning that the exact numbers are really determined by each individual ear/brain... some will hear a distinct repeat on a given percussive sound for instance at 20ms while some will not, so to a certain degree pinpointing the the exact number of milliseconds that must exist between one sound and another same/similar sound before they are heard as desticnt and separate is somewhat subjective.

Absolutely. Lucky for me I'm color-blind and my hearing (and sight, smell, taste as well) is ultra sensitive. If I had $1 for everytime I shouted "DO YOU HEAR THAT?!?" to my dumbfounded clients I'd be able to buy time with a high-class hooker.

 

[James Murphy]

If I had $1 for everytime I shouted "DO YOU HEAR THAT?!?" to my dumbfounded clients I'd be able to buy time with a high-class hooker.

heh heh, cool! well let me pose this question then ... if you were to be serviced by TWO high-class hookers at the same time, and they were to synchronize their "activities" on your person to within a 15ms tolerance would you perceive them as one really good hooker or would you be able to distinguish them as seperate and distinct hookers?

 

[metalkingdom]

heh heh, cool! well let me pose this question then ... if you were to be serviced by TWO high-class hookers at the same time, and they were to synchronize their "activities" on your person to within a 15ms tolerance would you perceive them as one really good hooker or would be able to distinguish them as seperate and distinct hookers?

One thing is for sure...It'd be over before I could make a determination!

 

[broken81]

to fuckin funny guys

 

[-Gavin-]

heh heh, cool! well let me pose this question then ... if you were to be serviced by TWO high-class hookers at the same time, and they were to synchronize their "activities" on your person to within a 15ms tolerance would you perceive them as one really good hooker or would you be able to distinguish them as seperate and distinct hookers?

 

[James Murphy]

One thing is for sure...It'd be over before I could make a determination!

yeah, it's called the Horz Effect.

 

[JBroll]

Hell, if I couldn't tell them apart I'd have to be getting a two-for-one deal... I do remember reading that the numbers are thrown off when there is any indication that there might be doubles (or any other periodic, for that matter), you can subtly sneak more things in if the listener isn't going for it but you have to be more careful if there is intent to find two different signals. I've also noticed this on albums that use one clean sound ping-ponging back and forth, like with that +/-8ms vocal trick metalkingdom and others describe (granted, I went with a wee bit more than 8... sue me) - I've dragged a couple of unbiased listeners (eight-year-olds... hey, they were around, whatever) into finding that magic number and it seems to change if the little buggers can figure out that there really should be two signals going on, so that annoying stuff does seem to come into play. Haven't tried a double-blind, though, so I don't know if that's listener bias (I did try the mute trick, they picked up on it) or something actually related to the effect.

Jeff

 

[AudioPhile777]

ok... so... back to basics... and hookers... and maybe some ale to get that "doubled" effect...

am I picking this up right?


lol

 

[metalkingdom]

yeah, it's called the Horz Effect.

Indeed!

 

[MR NINE]

heh heh, cool! well let me pose this question then ... if you were to be serviced by TWO high-class hookers at the same time, and they were to synchronize their "activities" on your person to within a 15ms tolerance would you perceive them as one really good hooker or would you be able to distinguish them as seperate and distinct hookers?

That's a hell of a technical/porno thought!!!