who will always be the new ones

[DrillSergeant]

The other day I was watching an old live clip of Master Of Puppets I downloaded sometime ago. Actually this one's from the Justice tour with Newsted playing bass. It made me think about how Jason was accepted by the fans. Same with Bostaph in Slayer which was the next clip I picked to watch. This is by no means a thread to bash Burton or Lombardo. But I can't help thinking that both, Jason and Paul, never got the credits they deserve. IMO they did a hell of a job. They had giant shoes to fill and to me they did. Maybe they lack some of the charisma their predecessors had. Granted. They're more like blue-collar guys. Still they kicked the hell out of their bands. Take Divine Intervention - Paul's drumming is the only thing that makes the album worth listening to for me. Or think of how Jason stayed the Metal crazy kid next door while the rest went greedy. So here's one to honor the "newkids" who actually played longer in their bands than their predecessors did.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

Sorry but jason has and always did suck... His personality sucks and his playing sucks even more.. he doesnt deserve any credit whatsoever other then contributing to Metallica's suckiest albums from And Justice on to the last album he was on.. I can't comment on Paul's playing because i havent heard those particular albums he was on (but i am a Lombardo fan).. but i can with Jason because i saw him with Metallica live back in 1988.. his so called playing didnt impress me at all..bass players that use picks never did much impress me... its not that much difficult of a instrument to play compared to guitars and drums that you need to use a pick instead of your fingers like Cliff... Even Nikki Sixx can play Jason's parts or come up with them (Sorry SixxSwine lol )... and as for greed.. i saw jason in a live interview once.. perhaps on MTV years ago and in it the person asked him what does he think of critics calling Metallica sell outs.. Jason's response was something to the effect : " Yes we sell out.. we sell every seat in every arena we play." ... if that isnt greed then i dont know what is.. for that one comment he deserves Hustler Magazine's Asshole of the Month ... the beginning of the end was when Metallica lost their original bassist and producer and settled for crap like Jason and Bob Rock...

 

[Greeno]

I'm with Serg, I liked Newsted. After In Justice he was the only thing I liked about Metallica. He always seemed like a straight up metal guy to me and I think his bass playing is fine... he's not the best out there but far from the worst. Plus when I heard that he was walking away from the Metallica machine my respect for him grew immensely. Besides, it's not like he (or Kirk) had any input into the direction of Metallica, so why hold him responsible for the way they turned out.

 

[DrillSergeant]

Yes, I can remember that quote as well. But from what I recall he was just trying to say that the fans still stick to the band. No matter what critics call them. And you must not forget that Jason was never involved in the writing process. In fact he always complained about that. What you call Metallica's suckiest albums was written by no other than James and Lars. Period.
As for his playing abilities I won't argue with you cause I don't even know how to read notes. But I have always thought of Jason being the unknown guy locked in the engine room.

 

[baldyboy]

i too feel a little sorry for jason-although a quick look at his bank balance makes me realise that being in metallica couldnt have been that bad!
the worst part about it must have been the lack of artistic input,considering the job he did on the first flotsam and jetsam album

 

[Wyvern]

I agree. Both jump in the ship without much support from the fans, did their best and got stuck with a band that decided to change to a point, that fans started to blame them withour reason. In a sense was the same problem Owens experimented in Judas Priest, he came aboard, was more than qualified for the job, did his best and got stuck with bad composition, bad production and bad fans reaction.

A lot of people blame Jason for Metallica, and he is not to blame! The band loose heart after Cliff death (and the accident), but the composition was till dominated by Hetfield/Ulrich. As for Bostaph he is a very good drummer, yes he's not Lombardo but no one will ever convince me that Paul is responsable for Slayer loosing the vibe from their early albums. As a matter of fact I know several fans that got dissapointed with Slayer as soon as "South Of Heaven"...and Lombardo was still onboard.

 

[JonnyD]

Ok Jason Great Player indeed but he cant hold a candle to cliff but who could really? .... as for Paul Bostaph He KILLS Lombardo I remember poping Devine Intervention in for the first time and being Pounded by his Drums from the gitgo ... Lombardo BAH! I always have thought and always will think Bostaph is better

 

[Igor_Cavalera]

Thank you JD! It's nice to know I'm not the only one that doesn't worship Lombardo. I mean, sure he was good, but I'm a drummer myself and could play most of his stuff pretty easily. MANY other drummers kick his ass. Although I really enjoy his work with Slayer, I don't think he's as tallented as he's made out to be.

As for Newstead, it's not his fault that Metallica have turned out to be what they are, and his playing was fine. Nothing special but not bad in any way.

P.S. I can't stress enough that I enjoy Lombardo's work, I just think he's over rated, so don't bash me..

 

[madcheese9377]

I won't bash anyone, I'll just say this, Those idiots Lars and James never gave Jason a chance to do anything he wanted to, so if someone thinks he sucks they can say it all they want cause we won't know what he would have added to the records if he had the freedome to do so. If he would have sucked then he'd sucked but if he kicked ass then he would have kicked ass. Metallica would have gone down the same road with or without him cause they would never let him contribute, and they would have still gone in the same direction as they are now.
As for Slayer I think they are still good, Lombardo or no lombardo, Slayer is awesome.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

Jason sucks period.. if his playing was any good or special like Cliff they would of let him try to contribute here or there.. like they let Cliff do when he was alive.. if you took out Jason's bass lines from their songs you would hardly if at all miss it and the songs would still sound the same with the exception of the ones that start out with a bass line .. I wouldnt be surprised if he was kicked out but to save face he is saying he left on his own... if you want to check out his song writing abilities check out his previous band's debut album.. Flotsam & Jetsam's Doomsday for the Deceiver... not that impressive its a ok album.. Metallica could of picked more talented bassists from more talented thrash bands at the time of Cliff's day... but most likely they just wanted a Bass figurehead the way Sid Vicious was for the Sex Pistols... as for Kirk not contributing.. dont think that Lars and James come up with his leads.. Lars can barely play drums and James is not that great of a lead player (please dont tell me that the solo in Nothing Else Matters is worthy of worship lol ) ... So im sure Kirk does make a contribution here or there but just isn't given the credit and looking at how the albums are turning out I wouldnt blame him for not wanting his name credited to any of the crappy songs in the last 10 years lol ... as for Slayer.. when South of Heaven came out i never heard anyone trash them (remember i grew up in that area and even saw them live back then) or the album.. everyone thought it was a brilliant album (though not as brilliant as Reign in Blood) .. As for Lombardo's parts being able to easily play them... its not a matter of technicality.. since there are a thousand drummers out there that can play very technical.. its a matter of "feel" ... to me Lombardo is like the John Bonham of Thrash/speed/old school black metal etc.. Bonham was never considered to be technically brilliant but nonetheless his drum parts fit quite well with Zep's song structures and had the all important "feel" that is needed in music... Paul does a good job but let's face it its like Karma that certain bands get together and it just clicks.. and with Slayer it will always be with Lombardo much like with Metallica it will always be with Cliff (R.I.P.) ...

 

[Clammy]

Sorry but jason has and always did suck... His personality sucks and his playing sucks even more.. he doesnt deserve any credit whatsoever other then contributing to Metallica's suckiest albums from And Justice on to the last album he was on.. I can't comment on Paul's playing because i havent heard those particular albums he was on (but i am a Lombardo fan).. but i can with Jason because i saw him with Metallica live back in 1988.. his so called playing didnt impress me at all..bass players that use picks never did much impress me... its not that much difficult of a instrument to play compared to guitars and drums that you need to use a pick instead of your fingers like Cliff... Even Nikki Sixx can play Jason's parts or come up with them (Sorry SixxSwine lol )... and as for greed.. i saw jason in a live interview once.. perhaps on MTV years ago and in it the person asked him what does he think of critics calling Metallica sell outs.. Jason's response was something to the effect : " Yes we sell out.. we sell every seat in every arena we play." ... if that isnt greed then i dont know what is.. for that one comment he deserves Hustler Magazine's Asshole of the Month ... the beginning of the end was when Metallica lost their original bassist and producer and settled for crap like Jason and Bob Rock...

I play with a pick, and I've tried playing with my fingers. It's a lot more difficult to do well than you think. Also, I get a lot more attack and note definition using a pick. Cliff was an amazing player, but definitely an anomaly in metal. Most metal bass players (Steve Harris excepted) use a pick. I don;t think that just because a bassist uses a pick it means he's necessarily less talented than one that doesn't. That reminds me of the guy who told me that
the only "true" way to play a bass was up high on my chest, and that if I played with it down by my waist (which I do) I wasn't a "true" bass player... whatever. I play bass, so by definition, I am a bass player!

Anyway, Jason never got to contribute to the writing process, and the times I saw him live, he was smoking! Saying he sucks because metallica does isn't a fair assessment. That said, Cliff will always be "the man" where metallica is concerned.

Cheers!

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

I dont think i meant that playing with a pick is less talented but it seems that the players who use their fingers more come up with the most interesting bass lines. I'm sure you are a good player and would like to hear your music someday (if your in Exciter I remember reading about them back in the 80's in certain magazines).. I guess its just a matter of preference.. I just always had more respect and admiration for non pick players like Harris, Cliff, John Paul Jones (yeah i know not same thing but hey i thought he was great) etc.. I'm sure there are some "Pick" players that I like that I am not aware of (is Dave from Megadeth a pick or finger player? ) but Jason was never anything special "Pick" wise or finger wise.. he's just there for the sake of being there much like Sid Vicious.. i think james/Lars wanted it that way.. Iv'e seen Metallica live with Jason enough times to have sat down whenever Jason did his bass solo... bored me to death... his playing to me is simplistic like Nikki Sixx's playing (sorry sixxswine lol jkk) though its a different music style.. neither one's playing impressed me. again this is just my opinion hopefully you wont be like Hawk and throw insults because of it.. anyways where can i listen to your playing? ....

 

[Greeno]

Jason sucks period.. ...

And there we have it, the final word on Jason. Thanks for clearing that up for all of us.

You know what, I think Hawk is right about this guy.

 

[Clammy]

I dont think i meant that playing with a pick is less talented but it seems that the players who use their fingers more come up with the most interesting bass lines. I'm sure you are a good player and would like to hear your music someday (if your in Exciter I remember reading about them back in the 80's in certain magazines).. I guess its just a matter of preference.. I just always had more respect and admiration for non pick players like Harris, Cliff, John Paul Jones (yeah i know not same thing but hey i thought he was great) etc.. I'm sure there are some "Pick" players that I like that I am not aware of (is Dave from Megadeth a pick or finger player? ) but Jason was never anything special "Pick" wise or finger wise.. he's just there for the sake of being there much like Sid Vicious.. i think james/Lars wanted it that way.. Iv'e seen Metallica live with Jason enough times to have sat down whenever Jason did his bass solo... bored me to death... his playing to me is simplistic like Nikki Sixx's playing (sorry sixxswine lol jkk) though its a different music style.. neither one's playing impressed me. again this is just my opinion hopefully you wont be like Hawk and throw insults because of it.. anyways where can i listen to your playing? ....

Well, I've never been a fan of extended solos by anyone. The only really interesting solos I've seen are Tommy Lee's back in the day, and Mikkey Dee (Motorhead), so I found Jason's solos more or less boring as well... but I also found Kirk's to be boring... to be honest, the only reason Cliff's solo was interesting to me, when I saw them in 1985, was because I had never heard a bass with that much distortion and wah (he played Anesthesia), so it really stuck in my mind!

Dave Ellefson plays with a pick, and he came up with some very cool basslines over the years. Gene Simmons uses a pick, and he's always got interesting basslines. Lemmy plays with a pick, and he's got LOADS of very cool basslines, to name a few.

I saw Jason recently with Voivod, and trust me there are so very weird/interesting/cool basslines in those tunes. Jason played them just fine.

I agree that they hired Jason as a placeholder, but because of that you can't judge his ability by what he did in metallica. He was told what to play and how to play it. When he played his bass solo at shows, to me it always sounded like he was trying to emulate Cliff, using the wah pedal and distortion, probably as a tribute to him, so again he was overshadowed by Cliff. I'm also a fan of Nikki's, but Jason blows him away from a technical standpoint. What Nikki does reaaly well, is holds down the rhythm and plays in the pocket. Flashy playing does not equal a better player. I've heard bass players that are so busy noodling all over the fretboard, that the songs really suffered.

You can check out a couple of songs with me playing in my other band, Critical Mass, HERE.

I'm not one to hurl insults if someone disagrees with me, unless they insult me first, so don't worry about that!

Cheers!

 

[Wyvern]

Lemmy plays with a pick so...

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

Ok so Dave from Megadeth is one of my fave players and is a pick player.. and I always liked Lemmy and his lines though I always thought he was a finger player for some reason... I always thought Kirk had ok solos and I thought he really shined through in Ride the Lightning album with his solos especially my fave on Creeping Death... Gene Simmons never impressed me but I think i can see where Nikki Sixx's influence came from.. your damn lucky to have seen Cliff do Anesthia live back in 1985 (Ride the Lightning tour?) .. wish I had seen them back then.. as for Jason in Voivod.. well Voivod has always been a weird type of band... but I like that about them.. there from Canada like you no? ... and yes I got the same impression about Jason and his live solo.. it seemed like he was trying to emulate Cliff... its ok to do it one tour but not every single tour... maybe I would of respected his playing more if he did his own original solo no matter what anyone thought of it.. that could of been a contribution for him that James/Lars could not of stopped I don't think... anyways I'll check out your playing on my friend's computer that is hooked up to cable since my computer isnt and it would be too slow... but thanks Clammy for being civil.. as for Greeno... that was just my opinion of Jason nothing more or less. I wasnt insulting any reg directly by saying what i said about Jason.. after all you and everyone else aren't Jason right? ... If you think Hawk is right about me and think any less of me then I guess it bares repeating.. ignore my posts... no one says you have to read them or reply to them... I am just trying to voice my opinion and hear other's opinion not here to start fights unless im provoked... <shrugs> ...

 

[Wyvern]

I wasnt insulting any reg directly by saying what i said about Jason.. after all you and everyone else aren't Jason right?

Maybe my real name is Jason . Now seriously, no I don't think you were attacking anyone personally IMO, but maybe when you exposed your dislike for Jason you could have done less strinkingly.

To give you and example I don't like Udo or King Diamond (yes I don't!, flame me at will :Smug: ) but I don't say harsh things about them (even if I feel tempted too ) In anycase remember that sometimes we tend to brawl a bit, we bark but we don't bite

 

[JonnyD]

Jason sucks period..

Your wording here is Terrible and Insulting ..... not to say that I would actually hold it against ya I wont, but do not tell me who sucks and doesnt suck ... we all have minds and opinions of our own, so that kind of attitude just wont swing

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

I understand what you are saying Wyvern and i have always respected your opinions (and no its not because were both Ticos lol ) .. but whether i had said i didnt like jason because of his personality and his playing (of which i had said it many times) or used the short term way of saying it : he sucks... it means the same thing.. he sucks because i dont like his personality or his playing.. its just my opinion (i'll say it again there is no right or wrong just opinion and no my opinion like anyone elses is not Law.. happy Greeno?)... people insult bands i like all the time in this forum or GMD forum such as Dimmu or Children of bodom or Black Dahlia murder etc..e tc.. i dont take life serious and music is part of life... enjoy whatever music or musician you like and stop worrying about what other people think of you or your heroes ... the main thing is respect each other if no one is personally throwing insults at you (they may throw it at the bands or musicians you like but you are not that band or musician).. because if you dont this forum will end up the way GMD is... full of flamers all the time in all the threads... when someone insults the bands/musicians i worship you know what i do? nothing.. i just let it rub off my shoulder .. and i pet myself on the back because it is just their opinion not mine.. i like the band and the music and thats all that it counts for me... well this is just my opinion but this topic has already gone too long.... so please someone talk about something else... i voiced my opinion on jason already... and i have nothing to add to it or change my mind... ok ill start it off.. isnt Lombardo back in Slayer? and has anyone heard of Lombardo's work on Grip Inc? ...

 

[JonnyD]

Well, I've never been a fan of extended solos by anyone. The only really interesting solos I've seen are Tommy Lee's back in the day, and Mikkey Dee (Motorhead), so I found Jason's solos more or less boring as well... but I also found Kirk's to be boring... to be honest, the only reason Cliff's solo was interesting to me, when I saw them in 1985, was because I had never heard a bass with that much distortion and wah (he played Anesthesia), so it really stuck in my mind!

Dave Ellefson plays with a pick, and he came up with some very cool basslines over the years. Gene Simmons uses a pick, and he's always got interesting basslines. Lemmy plays with a pick, and he's got LOADS of very cool basslines, to name a few.

I saw Jason recently with Voivod, and trust me there are so very weird/interesting/cool basslines in those tunes. Jason played them just fine.

I agree that they hired Jason as a placeholder, but because of that you can't judge his ability by what he did in metallica. He was told what to play and how to play it. When he played his bass solo at shows, to me it always sounded like he was trying to emulate Cliff, using the wah pedal and distortion, probably as a tribute to him, so again he was overshadowed by Cliff. I'm also a fan of Nikki's, but Jason blows him away from a technical standpoint. What Nikki does reaaly well, is holds down the rhythm and plays in the pocket. Flashy playing does not equal a better player. I've heard bass players that are so busy noodling all over the fretboard, that the songs really suffered.

You can check out a couple of songs with me playing in my other band, Critical Mass, HERE.

I'm not one to hurl insults if someone disagrees with me, unless they insult me first, so don't worry about that!

Cheers!

One more great pick player IMO is Jason Ward of Flotsam and Jetsam the man is Amazing and Criminally underated!