I don't mind loud albums if they sound good and still retain some sort of dynamics. I hate buying albums that are mastered so loud that they clip all the time. I don't really see any excuses for an album to be crushed so much that it clips so often. Does anyone actually enjoy the sound of clicks and pops?
Why does it have to be loud?
- Thread starter ahjteam
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props to ermz for that epic post. I think he hit the nail on the head.
the only thing i dont like about todays mixes is the lack of space. all of my fav. albums from the 90s and 80s sound like the band was playing in a room. from dirty black metal that sounds like it was recorded in a cold, dark drippy basement, to the drum sound on blood sugar sex magic, older recordings seemed to take you to the place where they were recorded, and captured the energy of the musicians in the band.
the only thing i dont like about todays mixes is the lack of space. all of my fav. albums from the 90s and 80s sound like the band was playing in a room. from dirty black metal that sounds like it was recorded in a cold, dark drippy basement, to the drum sound on blood sugar sex magic, older recordings seemed to take you to the place where they were recorded, and captured the energy of the musicians in the band.
GarethSE
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I appreciate what most of you guys are saying about music being played in the car or whatever, but it also reminds me of a point Ermz made at one point about how he doesn't mix for the lowest common denominator. Meaning he focused more on making stuff sound amazing on amazing monitors because 90% of people don't care or don't notice the subtleties because they listen on a 20 dollar hi-fi they bought at walmart.
Don't you think there's a parallel to be drawn between that point about the monitors and the situation in which you listen to music?
I'm curious about how many people here actually sit down in their living room and listen to music, and I mean JUST listen to music. Not with the PS3 on at the same time, not while cooking, not while having a conversation with a friend, but just sitting and listening to music.
If background noise in a car or from the kitchen or your toddler = the 20 dollar hi-fi
then presumably
sitting in your living room and just listening = the adam a7's or something to that affect.
I mean, I'm sure most of us here have sat and listened (and I mean JUST listened) to Dark Side of The Moon or Led Zep 4 or something awesome like that and had an incredible time with it. I personally am trying to aim for all of my mixes to have the same effect on a listener, where if you sit and REALLY listen to the music and the mix and focus on it, you will get the same sense of awe and wonder as you do from dark side and all of these other amazing albums.
I know pink floyd isn't decapitated or skinless or something like that, but I just don't personally see a reason why a death metal mix can't be as detailed and have as much of an ebb and flow as an old school prog record, and I think part of that is quieter mastering.
Don't you think there's a parallel to be drawn between that point about the monitors and the situation in which you listen to music?
I'm curious about how many people here actually sit down in their living room and listen to music, and I mean JUST listen to music. Not with the PS3 on at the same time, not while cooking, not while having a conversation with a friend, but just sitting and listening to music.
If background noise in a car or from the kitchen or your toddler = the 20 dollar hi-fi
then presumably
sitting in your living room and just listening = the adam a7's or something to that affect.
I mean, I'm sure most of us here have sat and listened (and I mean JUST listened) to Dark Side of The Moon or Led Zep 4 or something awesome like that and had an incredible time with it. I personally am trying to aim for all of my mixes to have the same effect on a listener, where if you sit and REALLY listen to the music and the mix and focus on it, you will get the same sense of awe and wonder as you do from dark side and all of these other amazing albums.
I know pink floyd isn't decapitated or skinless or something like that, but I just don't personally see a reason why a death metal mix can't be as detailed and have as much of an ebb and flow as an old school prog record, and I think part of that is quieter mastering.
-Loco-
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I feel like a loud mix just feels like a well glued mix, once all the foundations are laid i think it just helps everything shine more. With regards to posts of songs with volumes in the region of 'i just reached -sturgis dB!! come and read my post!!' I don't really care. Master it to a similar level of a similar/favoured song. Every song will be different depending on the style and frequency content, but at the same time i think there is sort of a 'standard' level that i expect the mix to reach, otherwise it loses it's punch. Darren's actually encouraged me to mix at quieter levels and i guess its true what they say, if it sounds good quiet...it will almost alays sound awesome loud!
GarethSE
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This.
I'm finding more and more that the best sounding albums to me are the ones where I have to turn my profire's volume knob up to 12 o'clock to get it to the same volume as most of the stuff that is the loud at 9 o'clock. \o/
drew_drummer
Dancefap
That'll be:
The lack of real rooms, real microphones, and real amps, and too much editing.
+101010101
My favourite albums were all recorded in the 90's, so this would actually be pretty cool
-Loco-
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yeah, exactly...it's getting that effect on the listener that is difficult. Darren's trying to teach me the same way you have helped him, but he describes it as 'without being as mean', Gareth
Fuck yeah... totally agree. I hardly ever meet metal musicians who can track their shit in one take to be honest. Its kind of ironic considering when I was a kid there was a big thing about metal bands having "real musicianship" meaning that compared to mainstream shitty dance/pop, a metal record had real musicians playing on them.
Its not just drummers in my experience either. I used to have to track all the guitar parts for my old band before they split because the other guy couldn't play if he was hooked up to a desk. At least two vocalists ive worked with bitched about me making them do the entire track rather than doing it piece-by-piece.
Pablo333
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Pablo333
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to me, the loudness thing is really boring, it's true that most people when listening to the same track(but different masters) will favour the louder version (at first)
But on repeated listens they tend to prefer the dynamic version - it grabs your attention more when the mix is hot, but I personally cannot f*%ing stand modern radio sound Masters clipped to hell and back.
But on repeated listens they tend to prefer the dynamic version - it grabs your attention more when the mix is hot, but I personally cannot f*%ing stand modern radio sound Masters clipped to hell and back.
drew_drummer
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GarethSE
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yeah, exactly...it's getting that effect on the listener that is difficult. Darren's trying to teach me the same way you have helped him, but he describes it as 'without being as mean', Gareth
haha, i had to be cruel to be kind, he was using mixcraft and micing so far to the edge with his JCM that his tones sounded like cardboard!
^_^
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Play as far as you can, stop when you fuck up. Go back eight bars... carry on. Rinse ... repeat ... one song.
If they're a good musician, this is the way to do it.
I like to break songs down into sections, loop each section and record multiple passes. I dont consider it cheating. if Im getting a better result, faster, than why is it cheating? I think that it is the best way to get perfect performances out of musicians. its more organized and it makes it easier for me to pick up on their (or my) mistakes and help them(me) pinpoint where they are going wrong with technique or whatever is making that part sloppy.
Ive never understood the whole "your only a man if you record entire songs in one pass" idea. It would be nice to be able to do that all the time, but in reality most musicians (myself included) benefit from taking a break sections.just make sure that you punch in a couple bars before the end of the last recorded section when needed.
Ive never understood the whole "your only a man if you record entire songs in one pass" idea. It would be nice to be able to do that all the time, but in reality most musicians (myself included) benefit from taking a break sections.just make sure that you punch in a couple bars before the end of the last recorded section when needed.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Maybe a stupid question, but how do you deal with cymbal tails in this sort of situation, if you're just looping round and round and round? Whenever I've done it in sections, I've got the drummer to hit his next hit of the next bar, so that I can easily blend the two sections together.
not necessarily, most recent albums I listen to do have real drummers, real amps and all that, they are just dont make you feel lie you are in a room, or SOMEWHERE with the band. mainly because close miced sounds are better suited for tight mixes.
I have been experimenting with automating mics that are placed further from the source in during slow passages.
I dont know man... some of the stuff I've recorded like that, one guitarist on both tracks, loads of copy n pasting, sample a bar then tack on the next bar, etc. to my ears, sounds so sterile to one-run tracks with minimal editing. Plus yeah, I hate splitting cymbals and sustained powerchords and stuff.
