Why does the media ignore power metal in the States?

[TribunalRecords]

No, no chance at all.

As far as Eddie Trunk goes, he still got his head stuck in the 80s. I'm surprised they gave him that show.

Eddie is stuck promoting the bands that pay to be promoted on that show.

does no one ever see the connections between the guests and what record labels they are on and what product is given away? Eddie even hinted at it when asked about bands he would love to have on there, he said UFO. naturally his favorite band ever, but when Jasta said why aren't they on here?!?!..he said they couldn't get them and mumbled something else. it was obvious. he has ZERO control over who the guests are on his own show.

RHINO RECORDS owns that show, besides the VH1 Classic label. there are a few that slip through, but majority of the acts are on rhino or vh1 classic.

that show was created to be a promotional outlet only.

 

[nailz]

Actually, Wacken is more like 60,000+ these days. And as others have pointed out, it's way, way more than Power Metal (Death Metal, Black Metal, NuMetal, etc.).

Zod

It was a general curiosity. I guess it makes sense, It just seems like an amazing number for a bunch of bands that can't draw 1/150th of that to a local show, even when you toss in all genre's of metal. Pretty interesting how that works, is all.

I assume Metal in general isn't as popular in Europe as many of us would like to believe, but I am, admittedly, ignorant in that regard.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

The irony of this thread is that Eddie Trunk has actually been at a good chunk of the power and prog metal shows I've been to (Hammerfall/Edguy, Nevermore, Dream Theater, etc) here in NYC. I remember everyone in the crowd booed Trunk when he introduced Hammerfall haha.

Too many overly sensationalist replies in this this thread over complicating the real reason why these bands don't do as well in the US as in Europe. THEY ARE EUROPEAN! It's the same reason Shadows Fall and Five Finger Death Punch and Lamb Of God and all of these bands that play stadiums/sheds over here were playing to relatively small crowds in comparison in Europe for a while. In Scandinavia alone, FFDP plays venues that hold about 1-2,000 people at the most, etc. Over here, FFDP draws like what, 5 thousand people per night on average? These bands are trying to amend this, which is the difference between the US bands and the Euro ones. They are busting their asses in Europe trying to expand their base. In the US, the European power metal bands, who are on European labels and have European management, usually don't make much effort to expand their base. In many ways, it's self-conscious that these bands aren't as gargantuanly huge as Lamb Of God or Machine Head. They don't want to make the same effort in expanding their name to the US as much as in Europe. In fact, I personally have heard this from many sources regarding alot of European bands. And to be fair, these bands are already maintaining relatively successful careers in their homelands, so why even bother doing it all over again? Edguy and Hammerfall play stadiums and sheds in Europe, in fact Hammerfall in Sweden has played venues that U2 played at, but
they are not youngsters anymore, so why bother putting in the work all over again?

It's got nothing to do with "the media." Dragonforce took every opportunity they got and that's why they are enjoying lucrative success right now (by metal band standards). Another example is Volbeat. They are HUGE in Denmark/Scandinavia and pretty big in mainland Europe and are making the effort to expand their base in the US by taking the right tours that head their way. Gojira is yet another example. I can go on!

 

[AngraRULES]

The irony of this thread is that Eddie Trunk has actually been at a good chunk of the power and prog metal shows I've been to (Hammerfall/Edguy, Nevermore, Dream Theater, etc) here in NYC. I remember everyone in the crowd booed Trunk when he introduced Hammerfall haha.

Geez, I wonder why...

I was at plenty of shows where he was present (Kamelot was also one of them, at BB King's years ago). I remember him introducing a band and getting booed.

I also clearly remember him saying "My radio show is the only place in NY that you would hear songs by Hammerfall, Edguy, Kamelot, etc." and immediately he got booed again. One guy near me even screamed "Bullshit, you only play that UFO and Kiss crap you asshole!"

 

[AeonicSlumber]

If power metal pulled in Europe, two ProgPower festivals in Europe wouldn't have had to cancel a year, or for good.

No no no, the power metal bands referred in this thread require far too much of a guarentee in Europe to be booked by Progpower Europe. ProgPower Europe would have to fork over 10,000 (or even 100,000) euros or more for bands like Edguy and Hammerfall etc. That is obviously out of their price range for them, but not for festivals like Wacken where the headliners make like 150,000 + euros. Forget counting on a small indie fest to pay a band that much for a gig. Alot of the bands that those fests book are small by even their standards, and would probably draw like 10-15 people over here!

Also the idea of coming out and supporting the gigs as a means of helping the situation is somewhat of (but not entirely) a myth. For smaller bands that are trying to make it, yes of course. However, more people coming out to the shows isn't necessarily going to change things. It will only mean the venue will get slightly bigger next time around and perhaps the band will make a bit more money in guarantees. BUT, it doesn't mean they will escalate and become the next big thing! In order for Sonata Arctica or Hammerfall to really make it huge over here, they'd have to play a few hundred shows over here, and a good chunk of those would have to be on big tours like a Rockstar Mayhem or something. However, that will never happen for a large amount of reasons (for one thing, their US label might not have as much money to offer them in tour support as their European label, and for another, the band wouldn't be making any money on that tour, so it makes more sense for them to headline a smaller tour for a decent guarantee).

Hope these last two posts helped.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Geez, I wonder why...

I was at plenty of shows where he was present (Kamelot was also one of them, at BB King's years ago). I remember him introducing a band and getting booed.

I also clearly remember him saying "My radio show is the only place in NY that you would hear songs by Hammerfall, Edguy, Kamelot, etc." and immediately he got booed again. One guy near me even screamed "Bullshit, you only play that UFO and Kiss crap you asshole!"

Yeah he's a fat tool. I can't say I'm a fan, but it's still funny.

 

[Qrusher14242]

lol yeah i watched the Eddie Trunk Show and one of the questions was 'What was the last DIO album with Vivian Campbell?" and he said Strange Highways lol

 

[nomisofsiman]

Most Americans have a misconception of power metal and progressive metal. They think when they hear the word "metal" that it has to be death/thrash/goth, etc. Also, most metal bands are on independent labels.

I think you hit it right on the head there. From what I've seen, most metalheads in the US have to have it as heavy and brutal as fucking possible. It's come to the point (and it pisses me off) that a lot of these metalheads are turned off with bands that have actual singers. I just don't get that. Hypocritically, all metal heads love Maiden and Priest, which makes no sense. Let's face it, Maiden essentially is a power metal band that instead of being called that, is labeled NWOBHM which really isn't a genre, it's a movement.

The bottom line with why these genres aren't popular is like most seem to be saying on here. There's no promotion. The media in the US, not even just the music media but the overall media is stupid. One stupid story happens, EVERYONE reports on it and shoves it down your throats. It's the same thing with music. One band has a song or two that are decent, and they shove it down our throat. Promoters and media alike just don't take risks. They go by what is sure to be successful, instead of well if we promote this correctly, it'll be successful. I look at some of these power metal bands, Helloween and Edguy in particular where if you were to take a sample song or two from each, put them on the radio, they'd get really popular, but this will never happen until someone takes a risk. The only popular power metal band is Dragonforce and they really did just get lucky as hell. Had they never got chosen for Ozzfest, they never would have sold as many albums as they did and they wouldn't have been chosen to be on Guitar Hero.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Absolutely. DF has been the closest to gaining commercial popularity...and they get slagged daily by the crowd that should be pushing them the most...on this forum even. DF was almost that "gateway" band.

The reason they get slagged is like I said previously. They got lucky, and the fact that probably 80 percent or so (slight exaggeration maybe) of power metal bands are more talented and deserve the credit more than them. That's why people get pissed about them being successful. Guaranteed if a couple of other power metal bands were popular, they wouldn't get dissed. What I think truly needs to happen and it just occurred to me is that bands like Priest and Maiden need to bring these bands exposure. It's the ONLY way it will ever happen.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Jet just put out a great rock album after their VERY forgettable sophomore release.

The Darkness split up but we got 2 other good rock bands out of it; Hot Leg and The Stone Gods.

I can't speak for the others you mentioned because I didn't like them.

Yes but personally, I don't think Jet's new one is that great. More importantly though, the whole point of this topic is bands having staying power. With that being said, Jet's clout has decreased immensely. The one band that is doing better is Wolfmother.

The latter two bands you speak of I've never heard, so I'm guessing they aren't exactly racking it in either. The problem is that Americans are too fickle. They want what's new, right now and get obsessed with it, but then it falls to the weigh side. Unfortunate but true.

 

[TheGraveDigger]

I would just love to see my bands do well in this country and to see fans of rock and metal music be exposed to stuff I love because I truly feel they would enjoy it as it is something different. There are songs by Nickelback and Three Days Grace on the radio that are heavier then some power metal songs so I know that it can't be that its too heavy for the radio. People would not get the misconception that all metal is brutal if they were actually exposed to it. If you put "Hunting High and Low" by Stratovarius or "Superheroes" by Edguy on the radio I feel a lot of people would love the catchiness and find themselves singing a long to it. The last time I was at a go go bar there were tons of hard rock songs being played while the girls danced and in my head I just imagined "Ministry of Saints" by Edguy being played and the girls going wild to it like they were doing with the stuff that was being played. I just feel the music is so good and I love it so much I want the whole world to hear it.

 

[Cheiron]

Aeonic we are arguing different things. 'Big' to me is with 2 supporting bands filling up a 1,200 person venue. Many bands with some radio play have a tough time doing this. As for Hammerfall and EdGuy and such... well they played here. Why would it cost more to have them play in Europe?

And I agree about needing to be on Rockstar Mayhem or Warped Tour. Maybe Nuclear Blast will help some bands to do that. RoadRunner is kind of picky (for good reason) who they'll do that for.

 

[wayland smithers]

Gravedigger I feel your pain.
I think the reality of it is these bands should have given a proper push from record labels and radio over ten years ago in the mid to late 90s when heavy metal was still struggling, and even more so in the States because Power Metal does have its success in other parts of the world and has for some time. Unfortunately, when it comes to the trend jumping American listener at this point this ship has already sailed.
If at some time in 95-2000, someone like Ed Trunk who reaches thousands of listeners on a major market hard rock/metal radio show, really was on the pulse of the music and gave bands like Stratovarius, Edguy, Hammerfall, Blind Guardian, and Gamma Ray a chance, yes, I think these bands would have a bigger audience here. In the 90s this sound was something new, fresh to American ears after hearing gunge, yet grounded in the classics like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, and Helloween. Its just unacceptable that American hard rock radio were not playing all these bands years ago. I can prove it, case in point with Iced Earth. They are the only band from the genre Ed plays rather often and do draw the largest crowds in the NY/NJ area. Ed does make some kind of a difference on the scene.
Do I think Strato, Edguy, Hammerfall, Primal Fear, Blind Guardian, Gamma Ray, Kamelot, Angra, and Nightwish should be looked at as the next generation of metal masters that should be playing American arenas? Absolutely! Problem is like I said its just to late in the game. All these bands have been around for 10 to 15 years. They are no longer seen as something new and fresh.
At this point I'm just happy we still have a festival (and the fans) like ProgPower to give these great bands a place to play and start their U.S. tours. The big names in Power Metal at least have earned some level of respect regarless of it not being from the "popular" opinion.

 

[MYSTIC1]

I have no shame in admitting to being an elitist. I do NOT want power metal to go mainstream. Mainstream is for Slayer/ Slipknot fans who don't recognize quality metal other than what they are told is cool. Don't get me wrong- I'm a Slayer fan for many years but I listen to many, many more bands which fall into the traditional/ power and prog categories. Long live the bands who have truly dedicated fans , not fly by nighters looking for the next biggest or coolest thing.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

most metalheads have to have it as heavy and brutal as fucking possible.

Damn right. Otherwise you do not like metal!

/drunk

 

[AeonicSlumber]

As for Hammerfall and EdGuy and such... well they played here. Why would it cost more to have them play in Europe?

Because they sell FAR more records in Europe for one thing. These bands are in the German and Swedish charts (Edguy and Hammerfall respectively) quite often. For another, because they bring in FAR more people to gigs in Europe. These bands probably make anywhere from 1-5 k depending on the market, venue, promoter etc, in the US, but easily over 100,000 euros to headline a big fest like Wacken or Sweden Rock.

And to prove my point, that some bands would rather do small headlining shows and take their money and leave over slugging it trying to build a name, Immortal and Emperor are prime examples. I've heard promoters paid them 30,000 USD and 70,000 USD respectively per night for their recent US reunion shows. That's big money that otherwise wouldn't have been made on a big 10 band festival tour, which is more exposure and better long term but offers little immediate monetary value. Big festival tours are usually an economical nightmare for bands because they have to compete with a bunch of other bands for merch sales and promoters usually give the majority of the guarantee to the headliner and the openers get next to nothing.

Because of this, established European bands just don't care about that sort of thing in the US. If they're going to play to the US fans, they may as well take the gigs with the best short-term payoff because it's simply not their bread and butter. I'm sure this might come as a dissapointment to a lot of US fans, but I think it's also fair to sympathize with them. Plus, the idea of seeing a band that would otherwise be playing huge stadiums in Europe in a small intimate venue is such a cool feeling!

 

[AeonicSlumber]

. 'Big' to me is with 2 supporting bands filling up a 1,200 person venue. Many bands with some radio play have a tough time doing this.

I'm not sure what you mean here, but radio is useless these days and truly is a dying industry. Just because bands get radio play doesn't mean success. Touring means success.

 

[adaher]

The reason they get slagged is like I said previously. They got lucky, and the fact that probably 80 percent or so (slight exaggeration maybe) of power metal bands are more talented and deserve the credit more than them. That's why people get pissed about them being successful. Guaranteed if a couple of other power metal bands were popular, they wouldn't get dissed. What I think truly needs to happen and it just occurred to me is that bands like Priest and Maiden need to bring these bands exposure. It's the ONLY way it will ever happen.

I don't see any reason to be pissed about Dragonforce. They got popular for a simple reason: they are the fastest and they were practically made for the Guitar Hero game.

And as far as instrumental prowess goes, hard to put even 10% of bands ahead of Dragonforce in the power metal genre. And I'm being generous to the rest of the power metal bands out there. Songwriting wise I guess you could make a case that Dragonforce is in the bottom half, but I'm still not convinced, since if anything they know how to write catchy tunes.

 

[Mr. Zane of HW]

Wacken isn't filled with power metal bands? It has lots of bands, and lots of history attached to it. For headliners it sometimes includes hair metal bands. It brings both the younger and older metalheads.

Rocklahoma in the U.S. sells over 40k tickets. I promise you its not because of bands like Halcyon Way (no offense guys!).

Hahaha! np pffense taken.
But even Rocklahoma is struggling. They didn't sell anywhere near 40k this year(they came close in the past as I recall). I mean, the fest is my wet dream of metal goodness, but metal for most, is a novelty. There is also many factors that contribute, but the biggest is the fans themselves. Let me explain, Maiden and Priest didn't get big because of MTV. Word of mouth. If you have something you love you should share it. you talk music with people, and when they say "I used to listen to metal, BUT...." you turn them on to a band you love. I remember talking to some metal heads at a fest in 2001, and they were pissed because Steel Prophet was wearing "modern" looking clothing and a few members had cut their hair a little. The music was still full on power metal though. This was at Powermad 2001 when I sang for Cauldron Born. I was dumbfounded by these retards who claim to be the true of the true. But there is a good bit of this idiocy in music. hoyt was telling me about a kid who was getting the buisness at PP a couple of fests ago because he showed up in a Slipknot shirt. Think he likes power or prog now? I don't know. Plus, for any scene to get big, you have to tolerate poseur fans. Think all those thousands that were there for the Crue or Maiden or Priest were true fans? Nope. But as my friend James Raggi stated a few years back, poseur fans make it possible for bands to make a genuine living playing music. Sorry for the long winded-ness, but just my simple point of view 15 plus years in the making.

 

[Mr. Zane of HW]

I have no shame in admitting to being an elitist. I do NOT want power metal to go mainstream. Mainstream is for Slayer/ Slipknot fans who don't recognize quality metal other than what they are told is cool. Don't get me wrong- I'm a Slayer fan for many years but I listen to many, many more bands which fall into the traditional/ power and prog categories. Long live the bands who have truly dedicated fans , not fly by nighters looking for the next biggest or coolest thing.

I love truly dedicated fans, but can the truly dedicated fans spread the word enough so bands can afford to tour? It isn't free to tour, it costs a hellavu lot more than people think. It costs assloads to do a good recording as well. From my pockets to the fans ears........