Why does the media ignore power metal in the States?

[Jasonic]

that show was created to be a promotional outlet only.

yep, all the way down to the scripted questions the fans ask Eddie in STUMP THE TRUNK, through to the prize stash!

I also like how everyone in the crowd is wearing a (obviously given by the bands / promoters / labels / etc to the show) fresh brand new band shirt.

Good show in concept, but executed poorly as usual.

It's a shame given how many great videos are in the VIACOM vault.
Hell, just think of what the original headbanger's ball "used" to play.
Ton of good footage!!

Remember when a whole evening of the Ball was dedicated to the HELL ON WHEELS TOUR?? For you youngsters, that tour was Helloween / Armored Saint / Grim Reaper

 

[Diabolik]

yep, all the way down to the scripted questions the fans ask Eddie in STUMP THE TRUNK, through to the prize stash!

I also like how everyone in the crowd is wearing a (obviously given by the bands / promoters / labels / etc to the show) fresh brand new band shirt.

Good show in concept, but executed poorly as usual.

It's a shame given how many great videos are in the VIACOM vault.
Hell, just think of what the original headbanger's ball "used" to play.
Ton of good footage!!

Remember when a whole evening of the Ball was dedicated to the HELL ON WHEELS TOUR?? For you youngsters, that tour was Helloween / Armored Saint / Grim Reaper

I still have my VHS tapes from all the shows...well the good parts. I even have the Helloween live show still that MTV showed.

 

[KingsGene]

So....instead of bashing Trunk (who I respect because he loves UFO and Kiss) and VH1 Classic, why don't you guys go beat up the ones that actually might play some current European power metal....i.e. MTV2's current edition of "Headbanger's Ball" or Fuse TV's "Let It Rock" or "Distortion" shows?

As we've already established multiple times, "That Metal Show" is on VH1-Classic....for old farts like me in their 40s and beyond. Agreed, it should be called "That Classic Metal Show" since people can't seem to understand that since it's on a "classic" station, it might be more catered to older, more established artists.

 

[Cheiron]

I still find it strange, and yet curious, how Gates of Slumber's video got on Headbanger's Ball.

 

[Mr. Zane of HW]

I still find it strange, and yet curious, how Gates of Slumber's video got on Headbanger's Ball.

If I understand correctly, smaller bands(or labels) pay a good bit for their videos to be placed in rotation. I don't have that on any authority, but it's just something I heard once.

 

[Creeps]

I have no shame in admitting to being an elitist. I do NOT want power metal to go mainstream. Mainstream is for Slayer/ Slipknot fans who don't recognize quality metal other than what they are told is cool. Don't get me wrong- I'm a Slayer fan for many years but I listen to many, many more bands which fall into the traditional/ power and prog categories. Long live the bands who have truly dedicated fans , not fly by nighters looking for the next biggest or coolest thing.

...and somewhere in the world there's a group of elitist fans wondering why their favorite band won't get back together that was so amazing that no one went to any of their shows or bought their merchandise.

I'm sure any band that you are a fan of wouldn't turn away kids at the door wearing Slayer or Slipknot shirts. In fact, I'd put my last $1 on it.

 

[Metal_Camden]

I have no shame in admitting to being an elitist. I do NOT want power metal to go mainstream. Mainstream is for Slayer/ Slipknot fans who don't recognize quality metal other than what they are told is cool. Don't get me wrong- I'm a Slayer fan for many years but I listen to many, many more bands which fall into the traditional/ power and prog categories. Long live the bands who have truly dedicated fans , not fly by nighters looking for the next biggest or coolest thing.

So what bands fall into your category of "underground" power metal? (well pretty much all power metal)

 

[Metal_Camden]

QFT - and there are promoters who are definitely willing to make shows happen as long as there's fans who will buy the tickets in order to cover the bills. Trust me, if I was in the live music promotions business to 'make money', I sure as hell wouldn't be working with traditional metal. :Smug: Because there's NO MONEY IN METAL. Period.

I do what I do from the heart. There's nothing that pleases me more than to see a room full of smiling faces at the end of a show and those fans talking about how great the bands performed and how they can't wait until the next show. But I've learned over the past three years that I can't afford to do it if the supposed 'true metal fans' don't support the events.

And then I watch people on these forums and others at least monthly crying about how this tour or that tour skips Atlanta (and the southeast in general). The best way to counter that?

SUPPORT LOCAL METAL!!!​

In Atlanta (as well as other major markets I am certain), venues like the Masquerade rely on local bands to support the 'questionable' touring shows that come through. The local bands would sell tickets to a majority of a crowd that wouldn't normally even bother coming out to a show. Say I was able to help two local bands who each have their own fanbase open a particular tour stop and bring out 100+ extra fans that night, we might have the required 200-300+ turnout that the Masquerade needs to pay the touring bands and their own expenses for the night.
And in order to prove themselves in between the tour support slots, these local bands struggle in venues all across the city to build the fanbase that the Masquerade looks for. But because so many local metal fans have a tendency to wait until a big tour comes through before they get off their asses and come out to supposedly 'support the scene', it devolves into a Catch 22 scenario where everyone loses in the end: local, regional, and national bands, as well as the fans themselves.

so think about it: "Why does the Media Ignore Power Metal in the States?"

because of the fans.

+1

 

[Metal_Camden]

It's a huge misconception, which we've mentioned several times before, that power metal bands draw big crowds in Europe. Now, if these bands would be able / could afford to tour as much over here as they've done in Europe, they would also have built up a following here of 200-500 people per show as they have over there - it's all about keeping yourself out there, and with each show draw more new people in (word of mouth).

c.

Perfect examples of Powermetal shows that FAILed (for draw) in florida

Kamelot last year @ St. Theater only around a hundred people for Kamelot's retardedly large guarantee. FAIL

Ensiferum @ AKA lounge with Lazarus AD and Black Guard. 70-80 people tops through the door. FAIL

Iced Earth at HOB Orlando was saved by the fact that they hadn't played in FL since like 04 ish? and because Matt Barlow was back. Not to mention its a home state for them. a decent turn out, but still not as big as it should have been

I need not talk about lack of draw from certain bands on florida powerfest this year too. Thank GOD for the local bands >_>

Even people like Stephen Pearcy only draws like 5-50 people. Just ask the guy that booked him at state theater before the RATT reunion LOL. dumb decision on his behalf.

well thats pretty much it. power metal tours hate coming to FL. Read Hoyt's post, that pretty much sums it up.

And Claus is right as well. I wish people could open their eyes and give this music the recognition it deserves but the general populace of the united states would rather watch some guy auto tune himself with his pants around his ankles. SHAWWWTAYEEEEEE

I think the only successful PM tours ive seen was the CAGE show at State theater (because of mandatory tickets and bands that actually SOLD the tickets not just paid to play) and the Sonata Arctica show that was at the haven in 07'. but that's IT! Most of the Local shows around here if done RIGHT are more successful than the big hitters that come through.

 

[Jasonic]

If I understand correctly, smaller bands(or labels) pay a good bit for their videos to be placed in rotation. I don't have that on any authority, but it's just something I heard once.

Its not that they pay necessarily for the video to be played.
It's that the label advertises on the station.
That is why during the current version of the Ball, you will see lots of Century Media, Nuc Blast, Metal Blade, and Victory Records artists.

Not sure how Gates got their video on there, considering the album it was from was released on PROFOUND LORE out of Canada, who I would not think has the advertising budget. Could just be a lucky break (IE - it was sent in and they liked it).

 

[Diabolik]

Its not that they pay necessarily for the video to be played.
It's that the label advertises on the station.
That is why during the current version of the Ball, you will see lots of Century Media, Nuc Blast, Metal Blade, and Victory Records artists.

Not sure how Gates got their video on there, considering the album it was from was released on PROFOUND LORE out of Canada, who I would not think has the advertising budget. Could just be a lucky break (IE - it was sent in and they liked it).

From whay I have heard and read....it is a pay to play pretty much. Could be wrong but buying ad space / commercial air time is something totally different.

The object of TV and advertising is to keep people awake to watch the channel....putting on Gates of Slumber will do just the opposite so I think that that just didnt get a lucky break. Dont forget...Sacred Oath had thier video played....I am sure their label or the band paid a pretty penny for it to get played.

 

[MYSTIC1]

So what bands fall into your category of "underground" power metal? (well pretty much all power metal)

Names of bands are irrelevant and I never mentioned the word "underground". I'm simply saying that I follow the bands I love despite their lack of mainstream success. I also follow some mainstream bands, like I said, but I don't appreciate them any more than I would a band who has a few thousand fans worldwide. Success to me is quality music with truly dedicated fans, but then again....I'm not a musician trying to pay the bills with my gigs......

 

[Metal_Camden]

Names of bands are irrelevant and I never mentioned the word "underground". I'm simply saying that I follow the bands I love despite their lack of mainstream success. I also follow some mainstream bands, like I said, but I don't appreciate them any more than I would a band who has a few thousand fans worldwide. Success to me is quality music with truly dedicated fans, but then again....I'm not a musician trying to pay the bills with my gigs......

Ya never really meant to say "underground' but i guess that's how I see it. Just say for instance if power metal was HUGE in America like pop and rap, would that make you any more or less fond of it? or the same since its about the music? just curious.

Coming from someone that would love to eventually do music for a living (HA I should say for gas and box to sleep in ) It would make things easier if it were popular IF you did "make it" and get some lucky connections. but then again that would mean that there would be a million other bands coming to the surface if it was popular thus making it just that much harder and success based on luck of the draw. kinda catch 22 I think?

oh well Its cool thought because the 150 people that show up at a good show will more than likely know every word of every song that the band plays that night. Not to be there "just because" but because they generally do like the music. Not saying that there aren't die hard mainstream fans but, I believe that metal has an overall genuine die hard fan base. Like me! haha

And I believe most people are just to lazy and just turn on the radio to listen to "whats hot" rather than researching their local shows, or actually paying attention to, say, the openers on the tour or who else is signed to the record label my favorite band is on.

But I heard Sonata was on Finish Idol? well their song was? That's pretty cool.

 

[Stingray11214]

Too many overly sensationalist replies in this this thread over complicating the real reason why these bands don't do as well in the US as in Europe. THEY ARE EUROPEAN! It's the same reason Shadows Fall and Five Finger Death Punch and Lamb Of God and all of these bands that play stadiums/sheds over here were playing to relatively small crowds in comparison in Europe for a while. In Scandinavia alone, FFDP plays venues that hold about 1-2,000 people at the most, etc. Over here, FFDP draws like what, 5 thousand people per night on average? These bands are trying to amend this, which is the difference between the US bands and the Euro ones. They are busting their asses in Europe trying to expand their base. In the US, the European power metal bands, who are on European labels and have European management, usually don't make much effort to expand their base. In many ways, it's self-conscious that these bands aren't as gargantuanly huge as Lamb Of God or Machine Head. They don't want to make the same effort in expanding their name to the US as much as in Europe. In fact, I personally have heard this from many sources regarding alot of European bands. And to be fair, these bands are already maintaining relatively successful careers in their homelands, so why even bother doing it all over again? Edguy and Hammerfall play stadiums and sheds in Europe, in fact Hammerfall in Sweden has played venues that U2 played at, but
they are not youngsters anymore, so why bother putting in the work all over again?

It's got nothing to do with "the media." Dragonforce took every opportunity they got and that's why they are enjoying lucrative success right now (by metal band standards). Another example is Volbeat. They are HUGE in Denmark/Scandinavia and pretty big in mainland Europe and are making the effort to expand their base in the US by taking the right tours that head their way. Gojira is yet another example. I can go on!

The other reason that European acts don't bother is COST! Look, Sonata Arctica did a headline tour four years ago, and we were in Applebee's with AMBR, and she made a startling confession: SA was going to be in North America for 30 days. Do you know how many states/provinces they played in? 9! You can play 20 COUNTRIES in Europe in that same time period. The North American continent is just too damn big to really go crazy over unless you are based here. Hell, even Kamelot barely plays here, and they ARE Americans. It is more cost-effective for power metal acts to play where they at least have some popularity.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

The other reason that European acts don't bother is COST! Look, Sonata Arctica did a headline tour four years ago, and we were in Applebee's with AMBR, and she made a startling confession: SA was going to be in North America for 30 days. Do you know how many states/provinces they played in? 9! You can play 20 COUNTRIES in Europe in that same time period. The North American continent is just too damn big to really go crazy over unless you are based here. Hell, even Kamelot barely plays here, and they ARE Americans. It is more cost-effective for power metal acts to play where they at least have some popularity.

I'd say this is is pretty much right, especially considering that all of the bands you mentioned in your post are on European labels who have European offices that sell far more records than their US office counterpart and therefore there may not be as much tour support for the band in that territory. But mostly, it's just not worth the risk for a lot of bands. I know for a fact that there are European non-power metal bands who many would associate already as being "big" that don't care about expanding any further in the US, so it's no surprise that the power metal bands would have the same opinion. I actually read an interview with Tobias from Edguy saying pretty much what I've summed up. It's too much work, they're too old, and it's not worth it.

I've said for a long time now that after Paradise Lost, Symphony X would be bound for success, because they were smart enough to take the Megadeth tour and then several large headlining tours (they almost sold out the Nokia Theatre here in NYC, which holds like 3,000 people). Paradise Lost sold close to 10,000 records in the first week and at that point, it was a no-brainier that a label like Nuclear Blast would snatch them up. In fact, pretty much all the "major indies" probably sent SymX offers when they left Inside Out. But even Symphony X probably won't be as big as Lamb Of God (or even Dream Theater for that matter), because they would need to do far more extensive touring which for a band with almost 10 albums and members in their 40s and 50s, is not worth the physical and financial strain.

 

[Pellaz]

If I understand correctly, smaller bands(or labels) pay a good bit for their videos to be placed in rotation. I don't have that on any authority, but it's just something I heard once.

Don't know how Headbangers' Ball works now, but I can confirm that it was "pay-to-play" back around 1994 or so, and it probably isn't that different nowadays. My friends' band Mutha's Day Out, signed to Chrysalis Records, and extremely young for such a signing, were "paid up" for 6 airings of their "Locked" video on HBB. I assume that the label, or possibly their management co., teamed up to pay for it. And it was worth it, too.

Interestingly, MTV forgot to splash the bandname, song title and album name on-screen at the beginning and end of the video on its first airing, so they were awarded a "make-up" airing and an interview on the Ball.

They also may have paid to be included on Beavis and Butthead back in the day as well...the first airing of the classic "cornholio" episode included MDO's video. Or heck, maybe that was part of the "oops we fucked up" deal.....

But I heard Sonata was on Finish Idol? well their song was? That's pretty cool.

Yes, the winner, Ari Koivunen, "won" with his rendition of an S.A. song. Pretty talented youngster; last I heard he was singing for Amoral.

 

[AMBR]

I've said for a long time now that after Paradise Lost, Symphony X would be bound for success, because they were smart enough to take the Megadeth tour and then several large headlining tours (they almost sold out the Nokia Theatre here in NYC, which holds like 3,000 people).
...
Paradise Lost sold close to 10,000 records in the first week and at that point, it was a no-brainier that a label like Nuclear Blast would snatch them up. In fact, pretty much all the "major indies" probably sent SymX offers when they left Inside Out. But even Symphony X probably won't be as big as Lamb Of God (or even Dream Theater for that matter), because they would need to do far more extensive touring which for a band with almost 10 albums and members in their 40s and 50s, is not worth the physical and financial strain.

While I agree with much of the analysis on this topic, being a fact-focused person, I just have to correct a little of your post. Not to be nitpicky, but the Nokia holds 2100, 30% less than 3000. Also, as a person in the 40-something age group, we don't like being prematurely pushed into the 50's, thank you. The oldest member of SymX is Mike LePond at 43 and Jason Rullo and Russell Allen are still in their 30's.

More on topic, I will concur it is the financial burden of trying to build a fan base in the U.S., not apathy by the media. What I find hard to understand, is the lack of promotion for those that do tour here. If you're going to comit to the expense of the tour, why not spend some more to try to make it at least a little more successful, or not a total loss. It seems the labels have just abandoned this genre when it comes to promotion. Even offers for free publicity are ignored.

 

[AngraRULES]

But even Symphony X probably won't be as big as Lamb Of God (or even Dream Theater for that matter), because they would need to do far more extensive touring which for a band with almost 10 albums and members in their 40s and 50s, is not worth the physical and financial strain.

Not necessarily. I am surprised Roadrunner didn't offer SX a contract, I thought it would be fitting for both parties.

You are wrong when it comes to SX's age and will to tour. Dream Theater, for instance, tours more than Symphony X does, all their members are in their mid 40s. They seem to be doing fine. I think if SX had to tour more often in order to achieve a bigger status around the world, they would do it. I don't think the "physical and financial strain" would be so bad in their case.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

While I agree with much of the analysis on this topic, being a fact-focused person, I just have to correct a little of your post. Not to be nitpicky, but the Nokia holds 2100, 30% less than 3000. Also, as a person in the 40-something age group, we don't like being prematurely pushed into the 50's, thank you. The oldest member of SymX is Mike LePond at 43 and Jason Rullo and Russell Allen are still in their 30's.

More on topic, I will concur it is the financial burden of trying to build a fan base in the U.S., not apathy by the media. What I find hard to understand, is the lack of promotion for those that do tour here. If you're going to comit to the expense of the tour, why not spend some more to try to make it at least a little more successful, or not a total loss. It seems the labels have just abandoned this genre when it comes to promotion. Even offers for free publicity are ignored.

Ok thanks for the clarification in your first paragraph. My main points still stand, however.

As for promotion, that's really up to the agent (and sometimes the label). If the band decides to leave some of the guarantee to the agent to spend on adverts, or if they decide to charge the opening bands a big buyon (which is rare for most underground metal tours in the US, but commonplace in Europe). It probably makes more sense for the label to promote the CD, with a little blurb saying "catch them on tour!" than it does for them to promote the whole tour, since they would be promoting bands that don't have a contract with them.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Not necessarily. I am surprised Roadrunner didn't offer SX a contract, I thought it would be fitting for both parties.

You are wrong when it comes to SX's age and will to tour. Dream Theater, for instance, tours more than Symphony X does, all their members are in their mid 40s. They seem to be doing fine. I think if SX had to tour more often in order to achieve a bigger status around the world, they would do it. I don't think the "physical and financial strain" would be so bad in their case.

No, RR would never would have offered them a contract. Or at the very least, I highly doubt it. You need to sell at least 50,000 copies or so per album for RR to even consider you. They had to license Daath to Century Media just because the first record didn't sell up to their standards. Plus, RR is clearly moving away from signing metal bands, especially with Gitter gone.

Additionally, you are the one who is wrong here. Dream Theater only did one US tour on this album so far, with no immediate plans for another one. There's a reason for that.

Second of all, when Dream Theater tours, they play to 5-10,000 people and can afford themselves with a huge comfy tourbus and probably make tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars per gig. They started out on Warner for over a decade and subsequently moved to Roadrunner, which means that they were always given exceptional promotion by metal standards. They've gone gold with Images And Words, and they charted in the top 10 or so with the last few albums.

Symphony X was always on indie labels, even up until now, with Nuclear Blast not being nearly as powerful in the US as Warner or Roadrunner. While Symphony X is now going to enjoy more success than usual, it won't compare to Dream Theater's simply because they had the advantage of having major label backing. Even if said backing was minimal by major label standards, it still far exceeds that of the indies or "major indies" in the metal underground. In order to get to where Dream Theater is at NOW, Symphony X will have to do a ton of extra touring, which would be far too much strain on the band physically and financially. A tour like Gigantour for example, was a nice long term boost for the band's notoriety, but I doubt they would be willing to do many tours like that because there's not so much money to be made on them unless they are the headliner or co-headliner. But, I hope they prove me wrong in any case!