Why is recording "THE (high gain) TONE" so hard?

[Aaron Smith]

I have read everything there is to read on this forum regarding technique, proper gear, etc, so I am not looking for further guidance. With enough time spent in front of a cab, and with headphones on and mics to play with, I have achieved tones I am happy with. My question is more of an "I wonder why" kind of question. Here's what I'm trying to get at: I have always felt that clean tones are quite easy to mic up, as I'm sure most of you would agree. Metal rhythm tones, on the other hand, are discussed on this forum on a daily basis. Even Jason Suecof will admit to not being able to achieve the tones Andy gets. So I suppose my question is...what is it about high gain that is so hard to record, while lower gain/clean seems to be so much more simple? Why is it that we can put a microphone in front of a clean tone, and without a ridiculous amount of consideration when it comes to the mic placement, our brain will quite quickly be satisfied, while with a high gain tone, it takes so much longer to finally capture something our brain likes?

It just kind of baffles me.

I have a feeling that someone smarter than me will explain something about way more harmonic content in an overdriven amp and more frequencies to keep in phase, or something like that. But that's just a guess.

 

[Torniojaws]

High gain tone is much more filled with small detail than clean guitar. Also, the waveform is completely different: distortion is closer to square wave, while clean is closer to sine wave. That must be one of the reasons, at least partly.

But then again, there must be familiarization in play, too. Most people here listen to metal etc the majority of time, so we hear a lot of different high gain tones, while we probably don't hear too much of clean guitar. That easily leads to the "well, they sound the same" effect. Clean guitars also have just as many different tones as high gain ones, but we aren't all that familiar with them. Compare that to how a lot of western people think Asian women look the same, but after you are more exposed (eh :zombie: ) you'll begin to see that is not the case

Just my 0,02 euros...

 

[zmetallica]

i find getting a good sound from both equally as hard, which once you know what to do, isn't that hard.

I see getting something different than what works (different bands different tastes) is whats hard.

 

[metalkingdom]

i find getting a good sound from both equally as hard, which once you know what to do, isn't that hard.

Getting a "good" sound (that you're willing to commit to) is hard no matter what you're recording. And unless you have lots of people willing to pay you their hard-earned money to record them, you may want to rethink your definition of "good".

Clean guitars are probably harder to make really professional sounding in a mix context more than distorted ones. Playing and the player are definitely more of a factor with clean gits for sure. Clean guitars also require compression and more fx, which aren't usually a piece of the distorted guitars puzzle.

One thing to remember is that some people have a knack for a certain thing/things, and others a knack for something completely different. You can turn the knobs exactly like someone else, but chances are you still won't sound like that person or their style. Just keep working at it, don't get too frustrated, and your own style will develop in time. You'll know you're there when you're wishing for a day off.

 

[aramism]

while everyone makes good points i could see aaron's frustration. there is a lot of legitimacy to his question.

and just as legitimate as his concern are the facts that if you are exposed to overdriven guitar tones more than listening to let's say bob dylan records or whatever your ear will be calibrated towards that. it's also true that there are more nuances in distorted tones due to the nature of unnatural tones. distortion is technically highly unnatural if you think about it.

at the same token just as many nuances that are present in a krank full stack are present in a fender delxue twin reverb... so it's to make that the only argument. the true answer is that there is none, just that in my opinion recording less distorted tones is still a journey but you start at a latter point in the "journey" than you do trying to record like a metal band. that's my $0.02

 

[Aaron Smith]

while everyone makes good points i could see aaron's frustration.

I wouldn't really say that it's frustration...I actually kind of enjoy working hard at getting the mics just right and finally nailing it. Like I said, it just kind of baffles me.

I definitely agree that if I spent a majority of my music listening time immersed in clean guitar music, I would likely have a sharper ear for clean tones, but I don't agree that this is the root of the whole issue. I think there is just more frequency-wise going on with a high gain tone than a clean tone, or at least the nuances are more pronounced with a high gain tone, making it easier to hear what you like and don't like.

 

[metalkingdom]

Yeah, but you guys are still missing the point. It's not about what you're used to hearing or any of that. It's all about experience, and having an understanding of how music, in general, should sound. Most engineers are working on music that they don't normally listen to on their own time. Neil Kernon is working with brutal death metal, even though he's the sonic mastermind behind some HUGE 80's pop records. I ,myself, don't listen to rap music but that's my bread and butter. It's all hard, and that's why there are only a handful of people in the entire world that get paid well to do this line of work. Being able to pick and choose what kind of music you're working on is a rare gift.

Many experienced pros would tell you that getting a useable distorted guitar sound is one of the easiest things to do. The reasons will usually be "the player hides behind distortion" and "there are no dynamics". There's no hiding with clean guitars, and dynamics are usually a huge issue to deal with when recording/mixing clean gits. Notice that I said "useable", not "incredible". You guys sound insane talking about "nuances" on distorted guitars, though.

Your ears aren't "calibrated" at all unless you're sitting behind a set of studio monitors working on music 12 hours a day - day in and day out. Just being a "listener" won't do it.

 

[everybody's x]

Getting a good high gain tone is like painting. It has to come with blends and shades of different tones. That's what makes it more difficult.
you can't just think "I want red" and pull out the red crayola, you have to blend and nuance your way to red.

does that make sense to anyone but me?

 

[metalkingdom]

does that make sense to anyone but me?

Not me. I'm color-blind (serious).

I know what you're saying, but I think that the "painting" is the entire recording and not just one aspect. Regardless, it seems like whatever your approach is works well for you.