Will there be a draft?

[lizard]

Yes, exactly my sentimonies. Although it does bring up the question of who really has the reigns: the GOP in general or neocons in specific. Does the GOP actually have enough of a handle to curb Bush (or rather his cabinet/Cheny). Would be an illustration of whether or not the neoconservative movement has entirely hijacked the GOP....

three former republican governors came out yesterday against Bush. They bemoan the abdication of core republican values and question where this administration is going.

Alex: while basic pay in the military is not great, and death or maiming may be your reward, for many, the military can be a potentially great career. Put in 20 years, and you're eligible to retire, with (admittedly dubious) health care, and a pension, and you are still young enough to begin a second career, which my dad did by going to law school.

as for draftees, I'm enough of a student of military history to have read a number of biographies of guys who got dragooned into units for vietnam and were thrown into a nightmare they neither understood or could cope with. It's doubtful most of us will ever have to experience something as horrific.

 

[xfer]

eh, i think asymmetrical warfare in the deserts and mountains of Persia is going to be equally horrific as guerilla fighting in the jungles of Vietnam.

 

[minxnim]

i think maybe nowadays a concientious objector may get a lot more social support than say... 20 years ago. so i can imagine there would be a lot more IF there were a draft, in fact i'd say almost anyone would try it that wasn't in complete support of the war. the difference now is that i think people are given a much clearer picture of what a war is ABOUT and what a particular war serves and also, i think it wouldn't be so entirely alienating and life-ruining as it may have been before.

 

[Baliset]

a guy i knew in college who went to iraq and came back has been set up with enough moeny to buy him and his wife a house and he was given a full scholarship to Yale for grad school.

 

[minxnim]

that's weird b/c we had to buy my brother his own bulletproof vest b/c they wouldn't give him one, and he came back with $500 and only $12,000 in scholarships.

 

[xfer]

I'm not entirely sure what you are saying, but do you mean that because we have a better idea of what war (in general) is about due to the coverage of war (this particular war) more people will be conscientious objectors?

Because, honestly, I think it will be hard to legitimately and not opportunistically conscientiously object to, for example, the War in Iran. Social support is strong, yes, but will it be after some kind of crazy terror attack that kills 8,000 people in DC and is traced to "Iranians"? And--importantly--an enormous majority of people supported the invasion of Afghanistan, which is NOT in line with the thinking of conscientious objector-hood. That post you made on the Internet gloating about the crushing of the Taliban might--and maybe SHOULD--resurface when you go before the draft board and pretend you are anti-war.

 

[minxnim]

no, what i'm saying is, it will be more socially acceptable in this day and age for people to object and take the ramifications (court martial, jailtime, hiding in canada) than it was back then. i think people's families and communities would back them regardless of what the punishment was. versus previous wars. i do not think it will be easier LEGALLY to object, but i think people accept legal punishment more than they are willing to accept social isolation/outcasting.

 

[xfer]

I'm with Greg. One of the guys in our circle of friends came back from Iraq with $20,000 or so. He bought a Hummer and gambled away the rest in Vegas. I think that unless you have a family at home you're sending your wages to, you can save them the whole time you're there and get a nice payout when you leave.

Where did your brother's cash go? Did he send it home?

 

[minxnim]

also i think a really great way i was able to understand the shift in war mentality from say, WWII to vietnam was by reading 'journey to the end of the night' and seeing celine's reaction to people's patriotism in the face of getting your ass blown up.

 

[minxnim]

nope. i think there is a differentiation between people signing up before the war and after also.
anyway, my cousin, who has been in the navy for about 15 years, makes about $19,000 a year.

 

[lizard]

I read somewhere we have signed some kind of agreement with Canada to make it much harder for guys to just find some sort of sactuary up there. I don't know how accurate that is.

 

[minxnim]

canada let's nazi war criminals hide there so i doubt it! hah

 

[lizard]

here's some stuff on how Canada has tightened it up.
http://www.nisbco.org/UAA/09232004.htm

 

[xfer]

"we'll let you flee to our country if you'll spend some time in our navy crewing our new subs."

 

[lizard]

and if you'll sign up for work in a Poutine Factory.

 

[minxnim]

t.g. for swedish citizenship