With all my hope...

well.....i'm anti-religion, but i believe everyone has the right to live as he please to.....
I really love cultures and religions.....the fandementals are always good.....but unfortunately, there are too many extremists who "read" this in a different ways.....
actually....that's what made me anti-religion the first place.....people read the bible differently....and trying to fit it to their needs....

I think that the worst thing in the world is generalization.....and the human kind are doing it perfectly......
lest go back to the main issue here......Bush is president for second time.....but we can't speak before we'll see how these 4 years will pass......
as well as we can't really know what could happen in the world if he wasn't president in the last 4 years.....
don't believe the media......maybe Saddam had nuclear......maybe......
do you know how small can be a nuclear head? how easy to hide it?
maybe he had....and maybe not.....
the sad thing is that innocent people died and still getting killed in Iraq....

but.....it is important to say......Bush is not the USA.....he's only their president....
Sharon is not Israel......
Arafat is not Palestine.....
they are only the leaders.....not the country, not the people.....
don't forget that there are too many things that every party suggets....economy, social matters and so.....so there are a lot of voters who think of this things as well....

you can hate Bush......but don't hate USA......
as a person living in Israel, I can say this is very important....
as you all know.....Israel is facing a big hate from the world.....(they hate us, not Sharon).....and this make us bitter people......
you can never know how is to feel that way, unless you'll come and live here among us.....

LOVE is a really big word......please try to use it often......
 
I'd like to point out some mistakes in this post:

Folklore said:
The origin of all those people is one. weather his family is north african oriented, or north-east iraq (places like Kurdistan or, say.. azarbeijan)
Click to expand...
There is no country, city or place called "Kurdistan" in the world.

Folklore said:
Most names of arab towns and villages are incarnated (liguisticlly speaking) from the origines of it`s hebrew name
Click to expand...
Arabs and Jews descended from the same race, so it's very natural that some words are similar.

Folklore said:
you`ll see that jews, where ever they`ll be, in whatever colour or look, they`ll have... they`re still the people that were driven out of israel some 2000 years ago by the romans, or 800 years earlier (I think) by the persians and the earlier empires.. and yet there were always relics of jewish communites inside Israel.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, I guess you mean that it's their birthright to own that land. If so, it'd mean that the true owners of America are Indians, middle Asia belongs to Turks, Anatolia belongs to Sumerians, etc. In that case, we'd have a huge task of relocation job which is impossible and irrational in practice. If you want to trace it all back to the origins you might as well go and claim the egyptian land as that was your true domain and surely you have more relics there than anywhere else. The belief that Israel is your promised land remains supersubjective especially given the global age where the world has become one melting pot. Don't expect anybody else to respect this belief as the belief itself lacks any respect to others. Throughout history land was conquered by wars and although it's understandable for you to fight for your country, it's equally understandable for the Palestinians to fight for it as well.
 
RashomoN said:
as you all know.....Israel is facing a big hate from the world.....(they hate us, not Sharon).....and this make us bitter people......
you can never know how is to feel that way, unless you'll come and live here among us...
Click to expand...
It seems this kind of "self-pity" is very commonly used to support your "holy war". Nobody hates you or anybody else because of who you are. What people hate are "self-righteousness" and "hypocrisy". I guess this thread will be locked or deleted now, as it doesn't serve your common cause anymore...
 
I do not think this topic should be locked at all! This us just the point I was trying to make> even if you do not agree, always keep the dialogue going!

So- I think we all are entitled to have our own views on whether Jews/ israeli's are entitled to their land like they- and others- say they are. As long as we do not start cursing or badmouthing in here, I think it might make for an interesting discussion.
I am noty gonna say anything on this subject- loving so many people who live in Israel, not knowing anyone from Palestinia and not living there I cannot really say....

I support love, peace and understanding and that's my main goal- to contribute for that to exist between everyone.
 
Morticia NL. said:
I am noty gonna say anything on this subject- loving so many people who live in Israel, not knowing anyone from Palestinia and not living there I cannot really say....
Click to expand...
Yes, I think it's better you don't say, because you clearly admitted that you're biased about this subject.
 
Here's something our prophet said:

Love your friend in a moderate manner; perchance he may become someday your enemy. Get angry at your enemy in a moderate manner, perchance he may turn to be your friend sometime.
 
Lion in a Cage said:
I'd like to point out some mistakes in this post:

There is no country, city or place called "Kurdistan" in the world.

Arabs and Jews descended from the same race, so it's very natural that some words are similar.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, I guess you mean that it's their birthright to own that land. If so, it'd mean that the true owners of America are Indians, middle Asia belongs to Turks, Anatolia belongs to Sumerians, etc. In that case, we'd have a huge task of relocation job which is impossible and irrational in practice. If you want to trace it all back to the origins you might as well go and claim the egyptian land as that was your true domain and surely you have more relics there than anywhere else. The belief that Israel is your promised land remains supersubjective especially given the global age where the world has become one melting pot. Don't expect anybody else to respect this belief as the belief itself lacks any respect to others. Throughout history land was conquered by wars and although it's understandable for you to fight for your country, it's equally understandable for the Palestinians to fight for it as well.
Click to expand...
Dear Lion
I perfectly understand what you`re saying, but I have to admit it looks as if you choose to interpret it superficially.
It`s a well knowen fact thats even visable to turkish ears, that arabic and hebrew are rooted both in aramaic. Fair. But you chose to emphasize this fact and not to examine the idea that the names of places here had incarnated form hebrew--> to arabic ---> back to hebrew (after the return).
This I said in order to explain the process that this country have gone through in the past 200 years.

As for the kurdish issue, I would like to ask you then, where did the kurd culture began to evolve and why would anyone call an area in the world kurdistan, if now you clain that it dosent exsist.
If you chose to say it`s an imaginary region just because it spreads round eastern turkey and north-west iraq then, well, I see why you`re saying that.
you might as well say that israel dose not exsis really because it`s just a part of cannan, same to palestina, which was only a narrow part of grand-syria to the ottoman empire, ruled by Jamal pasha, right arkadash?

Its all in who you look at it.

now, regarding the latter issue, what you`re saying here is seriously true and correct. It could also be part of reality if the jewish people and the rest of the monotheist people in the world, would ignor their beliefes and the fact that the mistory proves that that these people both belong to this place (and that facts bolds out that jewish people always kept their treditions where ever they lived, weather if it`s Rotterdam or Adana, their prayers had always faced Jerusalem since the days it was the only monotheist beliefe you see?

you`ll have so distinguish this fact and find that it`s not exsisting in teh case of any other nation that migrated to other places, and then changed its treditions of geography (you Could claim that islam is such for reffering Mecca, and christianity for reffering jerusalem and rome or the vaticn but these religions are multinational for their missionary character. Such caracter dose not exist in judaism..).

So, you could say that this view is unrealistic because other nations have gone though a similar process but the idea is that these other nations had different cultural values and their migrations have chamged most of their characters. If judaism were going through such process too, then we could agree about the issue :)
Just so end up my answer, I agree. it`s understandable that the arabs living here has a right to fight for freedom, but time will tell how can a nation have two countries, Jordan (which inclu. 73% palestinian people) and palestine and for how long will this could exist.

lets hope for the best for everyone and understand that peace here will arrive only with a painful yet fair compromise.
 
true words AVI ..
and bout the relations in between arab and jews ..well u missed a big scene my friend lion in a cage .. the whole world is related ..for life began with a couple in the begining ..and expanded later ..and for languages remember that first alphabets ever was in phoenicia ... and it too expanded for aramik ..tabary.. leadin for our modern states
these days mother tong and roots r but our identity ..but we should not give them space so they control our thoughts ..in a way to kill each other and buildin borders ( remember berlin s wall ) ..in the end these borders will collapse ..but not before we all realize the true meaning ,motive and goal for our life ..and that s we live for the others not for our selves
 
oh!! you reminded me something brother !!
I just finished reading a book by Paulo Coelho ("The Alchemist") which called "the fifth mountain". it`s about several stories: the prophet Elijah (Eliyahu), the relations between Israel-Lebanon and Assyr in the background (nowadays syria), and also - in a very bold manner- the birth of BIBLOS, that is the alphabet in its early roots!

Wonderful book which mentions stories of the bible and historical facts along with an imaginary take of a Lebases town called Zatephat.

I believe you might like this story! :)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...104-5756650-2373552?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
 
Morticia NL. said:
Now whoever said that metalfans are just dumb beer drinking long haired book haters> you hereby proved them wrong!
This is a very interesting discussion indeed and it gives me some insights into your thinking and history as well.
Click to expand...
Why they can't be both? I'm a beerdrinking long haird book lover (ok not longhaired now, but used to be)
 
Folklore said:
oh!! you reminded me something brother !!
I just finished reading a book by Paulo Coelho ("The Alchemist") which called "the fifth mountain". it`s about several stories: the prophet Elijah (Eliyahu), the relations between Israel-Lebanon and Assyr in the background (nowadays syria), and also - in a very bold manner- the birth of BIBLOS, that is the alphabet in its early roots!

Wonderful book which mentions stories of the bible and historical facts along with an imaginary take of a Lebases town called Zatephat.

I believe you might like this story! :)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...104-5756650-2373552?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
Click to expand...
10x for the book i ll buy it and sure read it for it seamed so interestin ..but once i finish my bio-physicks book :yuk: .
and speakin of citys u know what beirut means ???
beir - yut ...jewish-water sprout
 
WALLA???
I never thought of that but yes !!!
Beiruth does remind of the word Be`erot - Wells (in multiplay) !!
Be`er means a well ! wow.. like the city of Be`er Sheva (the biblical city..)
wow amazing! thanks for telling me ! :)
 
Folklore said:
WALLA???
I never thought of that but yes !!!
Beiruth does remind of the word Be`erot - Wells (in multiplay) !!
Be`er means a well ! wow.. like the city of Be`er Sheva (the biblical city..)
wow amazing! thanks for telling me ! :)
Click to expand...

anytime my friend :Spin:
thanks for the book ..tomorow i ll order it from virgin mega store :D
 
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