Woman fined $1.9 million for illegal downloads

[nailz]

More legal LOL from the RIAA:

Recent Supreme Court rulings suggest that a jury may not award statutory damages for the express or implicit purpose of deterring other infringers who are not parties in the case before the court. In other words, the award should be aimed at deterring this defendant, not giving the plaintiff a windfall in order to send a message to others who might be tempted to infringe.

...a quote from the RIAA from back in 2008, in which the an RIAA attorney said that yes, the reason why the suits brought against individuals are for such large sums of money is to scare other people away from downloading music.

Wow, shocking, the RIAA is breaking the law in ANOTHER, legally understandable way. Good going, RIAA. We love you.

Original Article.

 

[Cheiron]

RIAA isn't breaking a law. The Jury is not allowed to award. You can still sue and hope the jury does. Though it is reason for further appeal.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

Whenever I do get promos with voiceovers of bands that I like and want to play...I usually d/l them through torrents. Makes it easier for me to promote good bands.

Ever wondered (besides the whole downloading crap) if we chose to put voiceovers on most of the songs, usually leaving 2 or 3 w/o, because we want the radio stations to focus on playing those exact songs that doesn't have the voiceovers? Sometimes it's a very deliberate choice which songs have voiceovers and which doesn't have. Why go against the band's/label's will?

arghhh ...
c.

 

[Pelata]

To Shaye's point, the biggest impact (of illegal downloads) to the artist is the amount of promotion and tour support the labels are willing to put behind them. The better the sales, the more dollars a label will put into promoting a disc or financing a tour. Regardless, by and large, anything the artists see from the label, from album sales, is gravy. If you're under the impression the artists we listen to have significant residual checks rolling in, you're mistaken. In a perfect world, all the artists we listen to would be able to live a nice life financially, based solely on their music. Unfortunately, very, very few ever will.

Zod

QFT

 

[dcowboys311]

Ever wondered (besides the whole downloading crap) if we chose to put voiceovers on most of the songs, usually leaving 2 or 3 w/o, because we want the radio stations to focus on playing those exact songs that doesn't have the voiceovers? Sometimes it's a very deliberate choice which songs have voiceovers and which doesn't have. Why go against the band's/label's will?

arghhh ...
c.

Nope, haven't wondered that. I'm not being a smartass either, I really haven't.

Now, please tell me what to do in the following situations, all of which have happened to me multiple times:

1. I receive a promo with voiceovers. There are 3 tracks without voiceovers. These 3 tracks are also dirty. All of the clean songs have voiceovers. I'm not going to play something that has a voiceover, and I'm not going to play something that will get me fined by the FCC. What is better for the band/label -- me throwing the CD in the garbage, or me downloading a few of the clean tracks, without voiceovers, to play on the air?

2. I receive a disc in the mail. Due to poor packaging or bad treatment by the post office, the disc is a bit scuffed up. The only tracks that play all the way through have voiceovers. I could ask for a second copy to be sent, but that would take a few weeks, and the next few weeks are critical for CMJ/FMQB reporting. Ignore a quality band or d/l some tracks for airplay?

this is not as uncommon as you would think...


Also, if the labels would like me to focus on particular tracks...TELL ME. Other labels send discs, without voiceovers, and mention which tracks to focus on. Why should I assume that the label is putting voiceovers on tracks to prevent me from playing them on the air (which is dumb. Do labels not trust the judgment of radio hosts? I know my audience better than the label people across the pond, and I'm not going to bore my audience by playing the same tracks off the same record week after week), rather than to prevent piracy?

For most of the labels who send me promos with voiceovers, it's never random tracks. 99% of the time it is just the first 3 that don't have them, and the rest do. I doubt that these tracks are deliberately chosen. Luckily though, voiceovers are almost gone with the 3rd party download services. It's simply easier and more efficient for me to use torrents because the download speeds are faster, I don't have to search through my email to find the corresponding link, and I already have d/l directories set up on my computer. I also don't have to d/l one track at a time.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

1. I receive a promo with voiceovers. There are 3 tracks without voiceovers. These 3 tracks are also dirty. All of the clean songs have voiceovers. I'm not going to play something that has a voiceover, and I'm not going to play something that will get me fined by the FCC. What is better for the band/label -- me throwing the CD in the garbage, or me downloading a few of the clean tracks, without voiceovers, to play on the air?

What's better for the band is still that you respect their choice (that they made together with the label).

2. I receive a disc in the mail. Due to poor packaging or bad treatment by the post office, the disc is a bit scuffed up. The only tracks that play all the way through have voiceovers. I could ask for a second copy to be sent, but that would take a few weeks, and the next few weeks are critical for CMJ/FMQB reporting. Ignore a quality band or d/l some tracks for airplay?

Tell the label they need to send a new disc immediately and wait for it to get there.

Also, if the labels would like me to focus on particular tracks...TELL ME. Other labels send discs, without voiceovers, and mention which tracks to focus on. Why should I assume that the label is putting voiceovers on tracks to prevent me from playing them on the air (which is dumb. Do labels not trust the judgment of radio hosts? I know my audience better than the label people across the pond, and I'm not going to bore my audience by playing the same tracks off the same record week after week), rather than to prevent piracy?

It's not to PREVENT you from playing those tracks. It's meant for preventing piracy. We give you 2-3 songs to play - that should be enough!!! Where does this "entitlement" come from? We (the bands) spends our hard earned dollars on creating the music and finding a label who will put it out, and then some small radio stations starts feeling ENTITLED to chose whatever they want to do with it? Dude, if you (not you personally - but the media) were completely trustworthy and we wouldn't find our CDs up on the net the day after we send them to review/airplay, then we wouldn't mind giving you the full CD w/o voiceovers - but you (again, not you personally - I don't know your ethics) proven time and time again that you can't be trusted.

For most of the labels who send me promos with voiceovers, it's never random tracks. 99% of the time it is just the first 3 that don't have them, and the rest do. I doubt that these tracks are deliberately chosen.

The first 3 tracks are usually the ones the band believe to have the most immediate impact, so unless it's a concept disc, those will usually go upfront on the album.

Luckily though, voiceovers are almost gone with the 3rd party download services. It's simply easier and more efficient for me to use torrents because the download speeds are faster, I don't have to search through my email to find the corresponding link, and I already have d/l directories set up on my computer. I also don't have to d/l one track at a time.

Illegal!

c.

 

[dcowboys311]

What's better for the band is still that you respect their choice (that they made together with the label).

I don't see how making an "unplayable" disc playable is not better for the band...but you're the one in the industry. Not me.

Tell the label they need to send a new disc immediately and wait for it to get there.

Fair enough.

It's not to PREVENT you from playing those tracks. It's meant for preventing piracy. We give you 2-3 songs to play - that should be enough!!! Where does this "entitlement" come from? We (the bands) spends our hard earned dollars on creating the music and finding a label who will put it out, and then some small radio stations starts feeling ENTITLED to chose whatever they want to do with it? Dude, if you (not you personally - but the media) were completely trustworthy and we wouldn't find our CDs up on the net the day after we send them to review/airplay, then we wouldn't mind giving you the full CD w/o voiceovers - but you (again, not you personally - I don't know your ethics) proven time and time again that you can't be trusted.

How are 2-3 songs enough for a 6 hour show?!?! Variety is what keeps listeners listening...not playing the same songs over and over.

And, I realize that you aren't directing this at me but instead at radio stations in general, but I don't see how we, or many other stations, are a "small radio station." My show is the most well-known and longest running metal show in Atlanta (a major market as you know) and has a dedicated following. And what are we going to do once the album is released? Keep playing those same 2 songs? Also, I was under the impression that many pre-release leaks came from people at the manufacturing plant. So the media is not completely to blame.

The first 3 tracks are usually the ones the band believe to have the most immediate impact, so unless it's a concept disc, those will usually go upfront on the album.

And many times, the band is biased as to which of their songs are the strongest. If the strongest song is in the middle of an album, I'm going to play it.

Illegal!

So is illegally downloading a copy of an album that I purchased yesterday because it's faster than ripping it straight from the CD. Doesn't make it wrong.

 

[General Zod]

My show is the most well-known and longest running metal show in Atlanta (a major market as you know) and has a dedicated following.

Just curious, how many listeners does your show have?

I was under the impression that radio, internet and broadcast, was dead. To that end, this radio part of this debate, seemed like arguing about the quickest route for the Pony Express to take. Am I wrong? Do a lot of people still discover music this way?

Zod

 

[Claus / Intromental]

How are 2-3 songs enough for a 6 hour show?!?! Variety is what keeps listeners listening...not playing the same songs over and over.

Why play a full CD? 2-3 songs from an album should be enough. Again, this is an "entitlement-issue". You feel like you should be able to play the whole disc on your show. In that case, your listeners should / might as well go buy the disc. If you can't listen to 2-3 songs and say "yes I will buy it" or "no, I don't like it", then something's wrong with you (the listener).

And, I realize that you aren't directing this at me but instead at radio stations in general, but I don't see how we, or many other stations, are a "small radio station." My show is the most well-known and longest running metal show in Atlanta (a major market as you know) and has a dedicated following.

Are you an internet radio? In that case you're "small". It's a matter of definition of course, but I look at it this way - when being aired on an old-fashioned national FM radio station the artist get copyright money from being aired. When played on an internet based radio the artist 99.9% of the time don't get shit ...

And what are we going to do once the album is released? Keep playing those same 2 songs?

Entitlement ... but to answer your question: yes, please.

Also, I was under the impression that many pre-release leaks came from people at the manufacturing plant. So the media is not completely to blame.

That's not true. Most manufacturing plants these days are like high security banks. The pre-release leaks comes from media. A few years ago Nuclear Blast did a watermark test on a Dimmu Borgir album, and they traced the leak back to a high profile Italian journalist. When trying to suing him and ban him from receiving further, the other media people in Italy threatened NB to never reviews/airplay their releases again, and NB had to apologise to the dude. How wrong is that? Entitlement ...

And many times, the band is biased as to which of their songs are the strongest. If the strongest song is in the middle of an album, I'm going to play it.

Of course the band is biased. Again, who are you to go against the bands wishes? They'd like to make those titles available to the public, so why won't you respect that?

So is illegally downloading a copy of an album that I purchased yesterday because it's faster than ripping it straight from the CD. Doesn't make it wrong.

Yes it does. Downloading something illegally is ... illegally. You even said so yourself.

c.

 

[dcowboys311]

Just curious, how many listeners does your show have?

I was under the impression that radio, internet and broadcast, was dead. To that end, this radio part of this debate, seemed like arguing about the quickest route for the Pony Express to take. Am I wrong? Do a lot of people still discover music this way?

Zod

The last time I had numbers was a few years ago, before I started hosting, so those are probably inaccurate. However, based on the number of unique listeners that call in, the number of people I meet at shows who are both aware of and listen to the show, and the fact that it is both FM and streamed online, I'd say quite a bit. I've had people call in from all over the country.

 

[dcowboys311]

Why play a full CD? 2-3 songs from an album should be enough. Again, this is an "entitlement-issue". You feel like you should be able to play the whole disc on your show. In that case, your listeners should / might as well go buy the disc. If you can't listen to 2-3 songs and say "yes I will buy it" or "no, I don't like it", then something's wrong with you (the listener).

I never said that I wanted to play the whole disc. I don't see anything wrong with showcasing 5-6 tracks off the disc over the course of a month though.

Also, every single time I am given a promo, the label wants me to report charts to CMJ and FMQB. FMQB bases their charts on the number of spins. If you want me to play the disc multiple times, I would expect that I would be allowed and encouraged to play multiple songs! Like I said, variety keeps people listening.

This is really a pointless argument though, since most labels who used voiceovers have switched to watermarked download services.

Are you an internet radio? In that case you're "small". It's a matter of definition of course, but I look at it this way - when being aired on an old-fashioned national FM radio station the artist get copyright money from being aired. When played on an internet based radio the artist 99.9% of the time don't get shit ...

Not an internet radio station. While we do stream everything on the web, we're an FM station. I'm well aware of what we pay haha, since I'm the business manager at the station.

Entitlement ... but to answer your question: yes, please.

Not an issue of entitlement. It's an issue of longevity and staying power. If I have an album with 10 good songs for me to play vs an album with 2...I'm keeping the one with more good music.

Of course the band is biased. Again, who are you to go against the bands wishes? They'd like to make those titles available to the public, so why won't you respect that?

Because I'm a listener, not a member of the band. So I'd have more of an idea of what other listeners want to hear, which is also an idea of what makes other listeners more likely to purchase an album. I doubt you'd find any band who would be upset that somebody purchased their album because they liked track 7 more than track 2. A purchase is a purchase.

Yes it does. Downloading something illegally is ... illegally. You even said so yourself.

Illegal does not mean wrong.

 

[General Zod]

The last time I had numbers was a few years ago, before I started hosting, so those are probably inaccurate. However, based on the number of unique listeners that call in, the number of people I meet at shows who are both aware of and listen to the show, and the fact that it is both FM and streamed online, I'd say quite a bit. I've had people call in from all over the country.

Interesting. What station is it? I'll see if I can't give it a listen over the net.

Zod

 

[dcowboys311]

Interesting. What station is it? I'll see if I can't give it a listen over the net.

Zod

www.wrekage.org

The show is archived for a week, so you can listen any time you want.

Hosted by me and Pellaz (although my hosting has been less frequent over the past few months).

 

[freakchylde]

And a pretty well listened to station, in the local area. And lucky in the level of good shows that they have available (though I admit I haven't listened in a while).

 

[nailz]

Entitlement ... but to answer your question: yes, please.

c.

you realize this is what killed radio, right? Having to play the same tracks constantly.

 

[ICEDEARTHFAN]

you realize this is what killed radio, right? Having to play the same tracks constantly.

I can't tell you the last time I listened to any FM radio station that plays music.I only listen to internet music now,99% of the time it's Pandora as I love how it works.The reason is because I don't want to hear the same songs over and over on a daily basis for god knows how long before they finally change it up.Even during Hair Metal's time,I hated how I would hear "Every Rose Has It's Thorn" every hour(it felt like it anyway).

 

[booB]

you realize this is what killed radio, right? Having to play the same tracks constantly.

Wrong. Video killed the radio star.

 

[adaher]

It's not to PREVENT you from playing those tracks. It's meant for preventing piracy

It doesn't. It does prevent resale of promos, which is good. But it certainly won't prevent piracy. Any fool will take an album with voiceovers for free, and then download the proper version later.

And that was a good point about downloading of albums already owned. Sometimes it's just easier to get it on your computer that way. An album downloaded is not a lost sale, probably in a majority of cases. When I first got my Ipod, I had trouble going through my really disorganized CD collection. After awhile, I just got annoyed and starting downloading some of my favorites to put on the Ipod.

 

[Pellaz]

Wrong. Video killed the radio star.

That is both an excellent quip...and pretty much the literal truth.

www.wrekage.org

Hosted by me and Pellaz (although my hosting has been less frequent over the past few months).

True 'dat.

Just curious, how many listeners does your show have?

I was under the impression that radio, internet and broadcast, was dead. To that end, this radio part of this debate, seemed like arguing about the quickest route for the Pony Express to take. Am I wrong? Do a lot of people still discover music this way?

Apparently a lot of people still discover metal this way. A few weeks ago I got an email from someone who said they'd been listening to WREKage for about the last ten years...basically, that's the time-period that I've been one of the show's hosts/deejays...and this guy was really thanking me for helping shape his musical and metal tastes, 'opening doors that would have remained shut,' etc. I got a similar "holy shit, reall cool to meet you in person!" reaction from some listeners at the Goatwhore show last week. (I overheard them talking about WREKage, and then got their honest reactions about the show before I revealed my involvement with it. )

The last time I had numbers was a few years ago, before I started hosting, so those are probably inaccurate. However, based on the number of unique listeners that call in, the number of people I meet at shows who are both aware of and listen to the show, and the fact that it is both FM and streamed online, I'd say quite a bit. I've had people call in from all over the country.

There is no longer an "official" way of knowing since Arbitron, the radio ratings service, does not measure noncommercial radio stations (if a respondent lists a noncommercial station, the datapoint is simply discarded). Years ago, the Birch organization did rate all stations, and at that time we drew approximately 8,000 listeners at peak: basically near midnight for us, since the show started at 10pm back then and ran into the morning hours. At midnight we were outdrawing the legendary 96rock in the same daypart.

Our listenership is doubtless much smaller now, but based on call, contest and request volumes I'd say we draw around 2.5K listeners between midnight (when the show starts now) and 2am.

It's a volunteer operation, of course; neither Brian nor I get paid a dime for it.

 

[General Zod]

Apparently a lot of people still discover metal this way. A few weeks ago I got an email from someone who said they'd been listening to WREKage for about the last ten years...basically, that's the time-period that I've been one of the show's hosts/deejays...and this guy was really thanking me for helping shape his musical and metal tastes, 'opening doors that would have remained shut,' etc. I got a similar "holy shit, reall cool to meet you in person!" reaction from some listeners at the Goatwhore show last week. (I overheard them talking about WREKage, and then got their honest reactions about the show before I revealed my involvement with it. )

That's very cool. Surprising. But cool none the less.

As with most things in life, we see them through our own lens. I've never listened to radio. The entire concept seems bizarre to me. That said, I'll try to check out last week's feed.

Zod