Woman fined $1.9 million for illegal downloads

[Yippee38]

As someone who has technical experience and understands on a much deeper level on how P2P networking programs like Kazaa and Napster work, I would just like to bring to your attention some facts,....

[lots of technical stuff here]

Agree with you 100% nailz. The problem is that the juries are as ignorant of all that stuff as the rest of the general population. However, because they watch the 10pm news every night, and RIAA has been waging a PR was for years now, they all know how *evil* P2P is, and how the people who do it also eat babies with their Cheerios. In a trial like this, the defense's job is to educate the jury on the technical issues so they can be made aware of the HUGE holes in RIAA's case.

I hope they don't see a dime from this person (and they are likely not to see a cent because this was a civil case). I bet it cost them a pretty penny.

Why the hell don't they go after the mass pirates in Russia and China? If they want to put a damper on piracy, there is the lion's share of the problem.

 

[booB]

believe me, it's just as easy to steal a $60 game as it is a $13 CD. It just takes a little longer.

Not really. Console games require proprietary methods and hardware workarounds in order to pirate games for them. PC games, which are released on DVDs, are easier to pirate by simply copying the DVD, but a hacker still needs to crack the copy protection. Still, piracy is a HUGE problem for PC games -- ask any developer. This is why most developers are making games for consoles, and then (maybe!) porting them to PC, instead of the other way around, despite the superior capabilities of the PC compared to consoles. DRM is becoming a huge issue with PC games due to this rampant piracy, and the fallout is much akin to what we see when record companies try to put "copy protection" on music discs.

Check out this DRM and piracy feature from GameSpot.com:

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6209660/index.html?tag=result;title;0

 

[lady_space]

You don't get to take the car home and keep it before you buy it.

Not that these examples were really all that germane to the discussion at hand, but... yes, you can. I have anyway.

Shaye

 

[Kimavir]

Not really. Console games require proprietary methods and hardware workarounds in order to pirate games for them. PC games, which are released on DVDs, are easier to pirate by simply copying the DVD, but a hacker still needs to crack the copy protection. Still, piracy is a HUGE problem for PC games -- ask any developer. This is why most developers are making games for consoles, and then (maybe!) porting them to PC, instead of the other way around, despite the superior capabilities of the PC compared to consoles. DRM is becoming a huge issue with PC games due to this rampant piracy, and the fallout is much akin to what we see when record companies try to put "copy protection" on music discs.

Check out this DRM and piracy feature from GameSpot.com:

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6209660/index.html?tag=result;title;0

Oh, I wasn't saying it wasn't a problem. Trust me, it is, even for consoles (especially the portable ones). But you don't see multi-million dollar lawsuits (or any at all, really). I got more games off the Pirate Bay than music, but it wasn't the game industry that came down on them. It was the music industry, because they simple haven't adapted as well. Things like online play, downloadable content, and a ton of other things that require legitimate purchase all combine to make piracy less appealing. The industry also adopted digital distribution software that's useful, cheap, and easily accessible (you don't HAVE to have iTunes) before they were significantly hurt.

I don't want to get too off topic, but I don't think you can deny the gaming industry has done better. I could pirate Prototype right now... or I could wait a month, and it'll be half-off on Steam. Then I get to play with my friends, unlock achievements, and generally be more social. I'll spend $25 for that. And that's on the PC, the "HUGE problem". My point is just that the music industry drug their feet while whining, then adopted a combative approach, and they still don't have anything better than iTunes. It's not ALL the pirate's fault, because they simply don't have excellent, legal alternatives.

Shoot, even the TV/Film industry is trying to do something better. Legal sites like Hulu are a great start to providing an easy alternative to theft. I could spend 30 minutes downloading Heavy Metal in Baghdad, or I could watch it legally right now on Hulu.

 

[Rycher]

Not that these examples were really all that germane to the discussion at hand, but... yes, you can. I have anyway.

Shaye

So has my wife. But it's not a permanent thing. The dealership knows who you are and can come after you should you try to steal the car. They have a copy of your driver's license, and usually keep the car that you drove to the dealership as collateral.

The recording industry can't chase you down the same way if you download a cd, and you're not leaving any collateral with them.

Plus, doesn't anyone else think it's incredibly rude to admit to an artist that you illegally obtained a copy of their music? They put their blood, sweat and tears into it, and you're flat out telling them that you're too lazy to appreciate that by giving them $10-$15?

It's their creation - they should have the right to control how a person can obtain it.

 

[Magius]

So has my wife. But it's not a permanent thing. The dealership knows who you are and can come after you should you try to steal the car. They have a copy of your driver's license, and usually keep the car that you drove to the dealership as collateral.

The recording industry can't chase you down the same way if you download a cd, and you're not leaving any collateral with them.

Plus, doesn't anyone else think it's incredibly rude to admit to an artist that you illegally obtained a copy of their music? They put their blood, sweat and tears into it, and you're flat out telling them that you're too lazy to appreciate that by giving them $10-$15?

It's their creation - they should have the right to control how a person can obtain it.

You can return the car if you don't like it. You can't return a CD you don't like.

I'd be happy to tell an artist I downloaded his album, listened to it, liked it, then bought it.
I suppose I could tell an artist I dowloaded his album, listened to it, thought it was shit, and deleted it. That might be a bit rude so I'd probably say nothing. It's better than telling him I bought it, thought it was shit, but I'm still out $15.

 

[Diabolik]

You don't get to take the car home and keep it before you buy it.



You don't get to move in until you buy it.



You don't get to take it home without buying it. See a pattern here?



There are plenty of legal ways to sample music through myspace, youtube, and any other site that allows streaming samples. Who cares if it's poor quality or not? It's good enough to give you an idea as to whether or not you like it.

The problem with illegally downloading music is that it isn't a test drive, or a temporary situation. You can keep those files for as long as you want. It's not a fair comparison to talk about test driving cars or trying on clothes, because you can't leave the grounds with the product in hand.

Illegally downloading music gives you the chance to do so, and have a 99-100% quality copy of the final product without paying a cent for it - and that is why it's wrong.

I totally agree with you 100% on this. I never download music or movies. When I hear about a band or someone recommends one to me...I look them up on Myspace or Youtube....if it is something I like...I instantly see if my local store has it or I can get it from an online dealer (the End, Sentinel Steel, Shadow Kingdom).

 

[booB]

When I hear about a band or someone recommends one to me...I look them up on Myspace or Youtube....if it is something I like...I instantly see if my local store has it or I can get it from an online dealer (the End, Sentinel Steel, Shadow Kingdom).

Oh, come on, let's be honest here. It's NEVER something you like.

 

[booB]

I don't want to get too off topic, but I don't think you can deny the gaming industry has done better.

Besides being a more technologically-oriented industry, the video game industry has had a lot more time to deal with large-scale piracy. People have been making perfect illegal copies of software ever since there was such a thing as a home computer. My family had a Commodore 64 for years, and I don't think we owned one single legal piece of software for it, and neither did any of my friends. Many of the DRM and copy-protection methods used today (on-disk copy-protection, requiring the original disc, etc.) originated back in this era. By contrast, the music industry sort of got caught with its pants down. People always had to settle for a second-rate cassette dub of a CD if they wanted to get out of paying exorbitant CD prices -- and then, suddenly, they had a way to make a PERFECT copy of it instead. And then, they had a way to share their perfect copy with millions of others, and get perfect copies of THEIR CDs, instead of paying exorbitant prices for them. The music industry suddenly had to fess up to ripping people off for years and years, and they didn't know what to do. In actuality, the computer software industry (the precursor to the "gaming" industry) responded to piracy back in the day in much the same way the music industry treats it today, with the exception of the ridiculous lawsuits (the US wasn't nearly as sue-happy back then).

I could pirate Prototype right now... or I could wait a month, and it'll be half-off on Steam. Then I get to play with my friends, unlock achievements, and generally be more social.

If playing video games is what you call "being more social", then you probably need to get out more. It's okay, I'm kinda the same way.

 

[Kimavir]

If playing video games is what you call "being more social", then you probably need to get out more. It's okay, I'm kinda the same way.

You know what I mean, hahaha.

Great points though; I hadn't really considered how the time frames were so different. The curse of being a youngster I guess.

 

[General Zod]

Plus, doesn't anyone else think it's incredibly rude to admit to an artist that you illegally obtained a copy of their music?

Just curious... who did this?

Zod

 

[Rycher]

Just curious... who did this?

Zod

I'm not accusing anyone, it's just a general point that bugs me. Especially with internet forums and direct band-member access through them - it's easy for band members to see that their fans are downloading the record.

I'm sure they appreciate any positive sentiments from enjoying the music, but it must hurt knowing that the person obtained it illegally.

 

[General Zod]

I'm not accusing anyone, it's just a general point that bugs me. Especially with internet forums and direct band-member access through them - it's easy for band members to see that their fans are downloading the record.

I'm sure they appreciate any positive sentiments from enjoying the music, but it must hurt knowing that the person obtained it illegally.

Paul, on the Novembers Doom forum, promised a ban for anyone who mentioned illegally downloading the new disc, even if they were positively commenting on the disc.

One of the standard questions I've been asking all the artists I'm interviewing for this year's program, is about illegal MP3s and whether they view them as helping or hurting their band. There were a lot of very interesting takes on that subject (especially from Kobi of Orphaned Land, who had an especially unique perspective).

Zod

 

[MetalRose]

Plus, doesn't anyone else think it's incredibly rude to admit to an artist that you illegally obtained a copy of their music? They put their blood, sweat and tears into it, and you're flat out telling them that you're too lazy to appreciate that by giving them $10-$15?

It's their creation - they should have the right to control how a person can obtain it.

Yes, but if the artists are putting songs and albums on their site for FREE, it kind of makes this a moot point.

Again, it's no different from tape to tape copying in the 1980's, all quality arguments aside...

Just curious... who did this?

Zod

I once had a boyfriend say to me, "Oh, we're going to meet the band. I should rip one of their CD's from their and have them sign it!"





-MetalRose

 

[Rycher]

Yes, but if the artists are putting songs and albums on their site for FREE, it kind of makes this a moot point.

Again, it's no different from tape to tape copying in the 1980's, all quality arguments aside...


-MetalRose

Hence why I used the word "illegally." :Smug: I don't mind if artists put their own music out there on their sites, since that's their choice. My problem is with the blogs, torrents and P2P programs that circumvent the artists' control of their own music.

 

[nailz]

Just curious... who did this?

Zod

It happened on the Finntroll forums once. One of the band members went absolutely apeshit. It was pretty hilarious.

 

[spag]

These are just a few quick examples of why I could never award the RIAA money if I were to be a juror in one of their trials. Too many "What-if's" ... Lawyers are doing a shitty job with these cases, and people like The Pirate Bay are losing cases because others don't understand the technology, and Judges are members of the very community that's crying fowl.

Also a few examples why you would never NEVER be selected as a juror on a trial like this. Possibly any trial. Do you really think they want intelligent people serving on trials? Guaranteed that one side or the other doesn't want you on there.

I don't honestly know if they do jury selections on civil cases like they do with criminal ones.

 

[Urban breed]

Just curious... who did this?

Zod

People do this all the time!

But my favorite is when they say they bought the actual album when it's not even out yet.

 

[Urban breed]

but it must hurt knowing that the person obtained it illegally.

Not one bit. Should I see them steal a t-shirt off the merch table however...:Smokedev:

 

[General Zod]

People do this all the time!

People are odd.

But my favorite is when they say they bought the actual album when it's not even out yet.

People are also stupid.

Zod