Worst live sound/gig you have ever experienced?

some metal fest in jersey years ago ... was checking out Virgin Steele and they had them playing at the SAME TIME and in the SAME ROOM as some horrible death metal band. Only thing separating the two "stages" was a big fucking curtain.

That and the drum kit fell apart Cheech & Chong style in the middle of their set but man, when I say VS are truly seasoned professionals thats an understatement. Despite the unbelievably bad sound and the kit falling apart they forged on for 45 minutes and played fantastic ... at one point Ed Pursino (the guitarist) was actually standing with one leg out on the kick drum to keep it from rolling off stage cause the legs broke off. Dave sounded absolutely amazing, I mean EXACTLY as good as he sounds on cd ... older cds I should say ;)

One of the best sounding and most powerful sounding bands I've ever seen in my life was actually Manowar believe it or not. The sound quality they had going live was just unparalleled. Great show too ... take all the speeches and posturing with a grain of salt .. its fucking MANOWAR!!!
 
worst gig:
Disturbed. Only Donegan seemed to enjoy the show, everyone else seemed to be annoyed as fuck about having to play that night.
will never go to see them again live after that experience
Aerodrome, right? I remember that it was loud as hell even though I was very heavy-duty earplugs. :devil:
 
Aerodrome, right? I remember that it was loud as hell even though I was very heavy-duty earplugs. :devil:

I think you refer to motörhead not to disturbed, right?
MH was Aerodrome, Disturbed was Vienna/Gasometer.
The DT concert was also at the Octavarium tour, so it had to be 2005, not 06/07 as I though. Was at "Posthof Linz", awesome sound
 
Disturbed at Tampa Guavaween about 7 or 8 years ago.

It sounded like all of the speakers were face down.
 
i don't want to start a flame war or something...
but: i love how everybody is talking like he would be a live sound engineer....


seriously, live and studio are two very different things... often bad sound is caused by people who think they could do better as they are a good in the studio and convince other people (a band or management) that they could do better then the last (and maybe very experienced) live sound guy they've had.

in live sound you have to deal with some things that you'll never have in the studio, home studio or where ever where you have total control over everything going on in the mix.

1. The actual room, room size and shape. live rooms sometimes have reverbs of about 3 seconds!!! imagin sound checking a snare drum in an empty room with 3 sec reverb on it... as well as comb filter effects while sound checking and room resonant frequencies due to size & shape. the key to handle that kind of room is volume. but in a scene where "loud=better" it is a kind of hard to make people (band people & management) understand.

2. The PA. Studio monitors are mostly phase correct even when working with a sub speaker (phase not polarity, yes: phase is not polarity). Understanding how big speakers work and why they do as they do is helpful.

3. Stage volume & phase issues due to time differences, interference caused by stage volume. if you have 8 different sources streaming the same signal at 120 db/flat it is supposed to be muddy. guitar amps for instance. the guitar player is super loud out of his cab on stage which points directly at the foh guy. he wants to have his guitar in his wedge, drummers wedge, second guitar players wedge, PA and, as he has a big ego going on, in the side fills too. that makes it 8 sources (cab, mon1, mon3, drfill, sideL&R, PA L&R). pointing in different directions & hitting the audience with different times. this actually is like putting 8 different mics in different spots of a room and hoping for a nice direct and transparent sound... not working at all...

4. phase and time alignment in a PA it self. sometimes bad measured or bad placed pa systems (yes 5 centimeters can make a big difference in this case) can cancel out crossover frequencies. this could mean no signal at 120hz, 1k, 5k at all. i guess most of you would not even know how to get those back even if an analyzer is clearly showing that those frequencies are missing. boosting the frequencies is not working btw...

5. feedback and phasing issues due to stage monitor volume and/or multiple mics and bleed from different instruments (in maybe lead vocal mic).

6. last but not least the so often mentioned sub-thing. most PAs are configured to have a low shelf with something around +10 db starting at 80hz having full power at 63hz down to 30, sometimes even lower. i guess most of you will end up in having trouble with to much sub in the mix :)

these are just a couple of things you have to deal with, sometimes even the "different gear every night" can cause trouble. yes i have made bad mixes too. but i think i can say: i did my home work and these days my mix quality is very good and steady in a tour.

but when it comes to live sound, all i can really say is, the more control i have, the better i can work, the better the mix will be. if a band has around 104 db/a at foh in a club just with backline and monitors, they give me around 1 db/a to put vocals in and bassdrum, because that is the only thing you can not hear without the system :)

on big systems usually the band can be pretty loud on stage without causing problems but as the sound guy you might have to deal with different stuff that is maybe very challenging. like silent sound check with a change over of 20 min with 40 inputs to check and 15000 ppl waiting for your band.

and last thing, yes there are a lot crappy sound guys out there, i just wanted to let you know that live sound is different
 
Quite often the bass heavy, muddy mixes can be caused by the mix position. Often this is because the engineer is too high physically......It could be argued mentally too no doubt.

You mix from too high up and you have horns hitting you directly in a point source rig and long throws hitting you in a line array (often- it's a simplification). Sometimes you have control over this, sometimes not.

I remember years ago, just before line arrays came into vogue, one particular year of the Big Day Out festival here in Oz was particularly bad. Everyone sounded fucked - all kick and bass, no gtr's at all. I remember seeing Blink 182 and thinking they sounded better this way but that's another story....

Anyway, I started sniffing around the FOH tent as I was due up in a couple of bands and realised they had the rig setup (Claire S4/R4's) so the longthrows were pointing straight at the mix position....This is a dual stage L-R-L triple stack setup, so mix position was in front of the middle stack....It was utterly brutal, 1500-3k ripping your fucken head off. The ground-stacked subs weren't helping either. Power alley was out in force.

We started calling this the wombat effect and calling kick/bass heavy mixes wombat mixes.

I spent the show mixing on my knees....
 
Ok, so I just got back from seeing Mayhem and Anaal Nathrakh at the 02 Academy Islington.
Well, I say I saw Anaal Nathrakh, they couldn't make it because of the snow.
Neither could the first support band, completely understandable, our country can't deal with any amount of snow at such short notice.
However after waiting until sometime after 9 o clock (I arrived at 5:30ish)
the band finally came on, and holy-fucking-snare batman!
Seriously, all could hear through the first two songs was snare and bass like you wouldn't believe. Thankfully after that the snare was reigned in a bit, unfortunately the bass was not.
The rest of the set was basically just 80hz, the guitars were sooooo fucking low in the mix. I don't think I can put into words how little of the guitars I could hear, FUCKING NOTHING!!!

I am dissapoint :mad:

I was at that gig :( I got there around 5pm and got inside at 6.30, then after waiting for an hour they announced that it was only Mayhem playing so I fucked off to the pub for a while and came back at 9 :D I've never been this disappointed with a gig, I wanted to see Anaal Nathrakh so badly :(
 
That's what i was thinking throughout the gig.
It's these sound guys that don't understand that 99% of the actual musical worth of metal is held in the GUITARS.
I couldn't give a shit if i can't feel the kicks, if i cant hear what MUSIC is being played. it's not fucking dubstep.

Yeah, the guitars were basically muted through the whole gig, the sound sucked. And considering they spent 3 fucking hours setting the drums and mics up, it should have sounded good.

soundwise almost EVERYTHING at this year's brutal assault

necrophagist: instrument levels and tone where constantly changing litterally all the time, on some spots the toms were turned up insanely loud, very bassy with lots of sustain, cool toms yeah
bass was too loud most of the time, but for the last few songs i think they either turned it down very much or muted it completely
ensiferum: everything ridiculously undergained, sounded totally silly
fear factory: just pure bass the first few songs, surprisingly the sound became really great later on
cannibal corpse: loud kick + you could really hear how untight it was
gorgoroth: distorted kick, fuck yes

devin townsend was godlike though

performance wise: mayhem
saw them in austria in 2008, they were the headliner of the festival, the band before had finished their set, lots of people standing there, waiting for mayhem
soundcheck, hellhammer checks every fucking little tom of his retardedly big kit, soundcheck takes ages
then, finally, the other mayhem dudes appear on stage, without corpsepaint or anything, totally unmotivated,
hellhammer plays
hat--x---x---x---x---x---
sn-------x-------x-------
kick-x-------x--------x--- ...
on his retardedly big kit
the singer, he was the only one of the whole band who at least moved around a little bit, isn't really screaming or shouting or something, he does some sort of strange high squealing noise all the time, maybe i was just hearing feedback i dunno,
also, the guy does ridiculously evil poses all the time, occasionally, he tires forming a swastika with his hands somehow, (i can't really put it into words how he did it, but it was totally obvious)
the whole show was full of nazi allusions, which is something that austrian and german audience generally doesn't want to see at all
i was amazed, literally i couldn't believe my eyes and ears
at the end of the show, only a handful of people were left before the stage
incredible

when i saw them in czech republic a few weeks later they hat corpsepaint & all the fancy stuff, and put on a quite solid show surprisingly

They didn't do many nazi type things at the gig last week, there were a few in the crowd though, in fact my mate is basically one haha, but yeah, shit gig with shit sound :mad:
 
i don't want to start a flame war or something...
but: i love how everybody is talking like he would be a live sound engineer....

seriously, live and studio are two very different things... often bad sound is caused by people who think they could do better as they are a good in the studio and convince other people (a band or management) that they could do better then the last (and maybe very experienced) live sound guy they've had.

in live sound you have to deal with some things that you'll never have in the studio, home studio or where ever where you have total control over everything going on in the mix
[.....]

and last thing, yes there are a lot crappy sound guys out there, i just wanted to let you know that live sound is different

I think I don't get what you want to say with that post...
Do you mean that just because I don't do live sound I can't distinguish a bad live sound from a great one?
Do you mean that because live sound is more difficult it's allowed to have a shitty sound at some days?
I also don't mean to flame or anything, and I know that live sound is something different and not easy...but as someone who has paid for the ticket I'm pissed if I can't hear anything but muddy rumble or piercing high mids^^
Even though I have to say that there are venues were I have no idea WHY they do concerts there because the room sounds like ass and the PA too...not the fault of the FOH guy obviously in that case ;)
 
I think I don't get what you want to say with that post...
Do you mean that just because I don't do live sound I can't distinguish a bad live sound from a great one?
Do you mean that because live sound is more difficult it's allowed to have a shitty sound at some days?
I also don't mean to flame or anything, and I know that live sound is something different and not easy...but as someone who has paid for the ticket I'm pissed if I can't hear anything but muddy rumble or piercing high mids^^
Even though I have to say that there are venues were I have no idea WHY they do concerts there because the room sounds like ass and the PA too...not the fault of the FOH guy obviously in that case ;)

I think his post was spot on. I work in the rental business and setting up a show with specific requirements is a totally different animal from mixing in a studio. I don't think he denied you right to judge, in fact anyone can claim that so and so sound was crap, they don't have to be musos or production people at all. This is personal perception. But coming along and claiming you could definitely do a better job than soundguy X is an awful load of BS in my not very humble opinion. What kind of venue, what kind of speakers, amps, desk, outboard (if any), there's a boatload of variables right there. On a typical metal tour every night is different. Yeah sure the backline stays the same. And typically, that's the only overlap in equipment terms between studio and live world (that and microphones). Conversely, it's probably the least important part of the live sound chain.
 
I think his post was completely out of place. Uhm thank you we know it's not easy and it's different from studio mixing, who ever said the opposite? There are plenty threads about live mixing and we have quite a few experienced guys in that field and this thread is not about that, it's about saying the worst live sounds you have experienced and nothing more, thank you. Sometimes it's the engineer's fault and sometimes it's not, there are many factors involved. It seems I cannot be allowed to say a sound was bad because I don't know how to do it myself? That's the silliest thing I've ever heard
 
No need for the condescending thank yous buddy. I think both his post and mine clearly stated that everyone is more than entitled to an opinion, but the supposition that any studio guy could do a better job than maligned foh man is rather ridiculous. I don't know where you read that, but I didn't see it in his post or mine (I actually double-checked).
 
I do a bit of FOH work myself, so I usually don't jump on the hate wagon if a gig's sound is a bit off, because I know there are lots and lots and lots of factors that might contribute to that besides the FOH guy's know-how. There are tons of situations where not even the best live engineer could make it work. Horrible venues, crap gear, artists on an ego trip and so on and so on. That being said, I can only recall two gigs where the sound actually bothered me.

1) Our organization's Halloween party a few years back. We paid a pretty decent sum for a party band (actually, I said from the start that we were paying way more than a band with little to no credentials should make from such a gig, but they were friends of a friend of one of us or something, so yeah...) who had their own PA. Fair enough, less set-up and tear-down work for me, more time for getting drunk. Turned out they didn't have a sound guy, though. They had a mixer preset. Yes. A mixer preset that "always works." I would have gladly done FOH that night for free (it's a non-profit organization so no-one gets paid), but apparently it was not necessary. When the gig started, they were unbearably loud and the amount of high frequencies was actually painful. I had to retreat to the venue's entry room for the show's duration. Several of us (the people who booked the band) requested them to turn down a bit and go easier on the treble side, but we were disregarded for "not knowing shit." At the end of the night, every single audience member I talked to was rather displeased. Talk about a professional party band, huh.

2) The Haunted @ Ilosaarirock 2009 (could be 2008, I'm not 100% sure). The Haunted are probably my favorite live band ever, absolutely awesome. This time it was just so loud I couldn't make out anything. I left after the first three songs because while their stage presence was just as awesome as ever, I just didn't hear the music. It was a festival though, and the switches at that stage are really short, so things can easily get out of hand. Not the easiest venue for the FOH people by any means, so I'm not hating. Besides, festivals are for being mind-numbingly drunk for four days in a row, not for watching bands, right? :lol:
 
here's one thats not the engineers fault. throughout most of sunday at reading festival this year we had relatively strong winds/bad weather. the sound for the most part was pretty good; i'd say the time at which it was most noticeable was during limp bizkit's set. there was a strong gust of wind every 30 seconds which completely messed up the sound from the PA coming towards us, was really frustrating!
 
I think his post was spot on. I work in the rental business and setting up a show with specific requirements is a totally different animal from mixing in a studio. I don't think he denied you right to judge, in fact anyone can claim that so and so sound was crap, they don't have to be musos or production people at all. This is personal perception. But coming along and claiming you could definitely do a better job than soundguy X is an awful load of BS in my not very humble opinion. What kind of venue, what kind of speakers, amps, desk, outboard (if any), there's a boatload of variables right there. On a typical metal tour every night is different. Yeah sure the backline stays the same. And typically, that's the only overlap in equipment terms between studio and live world (that and microphones). Conversely, it's probably the least important part of the live sound chain.

ah allright, I missed the part about someone claiming to be able to do better.

But I must say that in some cases I also thought that, because I feel capable of turning down the volume and taking out some treble, even if I "just" do studio stuff :p
 
We (The Nuclear Option) played this Bar/Club once in South GA (I'm thinking Albany, but I'm not sure) And the sound guy for the place was "on vacation" and they didn't hire anyone to take his place, so I had to figure out how this guy had all his channels and shit set up in about 10 minutes.. of course we went first so our sound sucked, but after our set I finally managed to figure out how this guy had his monitors wired up (fucking retardedly) and everyone else sounded fine. But when we played we couldn't hear a damn thing on stage.. ghey :(

-P