Would this Work? taken from the ozzfest thread

[Metal_Camden]

Say someone somehow got basically a slightly smaller version of Prog Power for a full US Festival run. Like somehow 20-25 dates or something like that...

Im thinking like two or three big big power/prog bands in the vein of B.Guardian, Iced Earth, Edguy, Nightwish......
3 middle levels, Evergreys, pagans minds, symphony x.... somthing like these
then like 2-3 stormwarrior-ish level bands.

How do you guys think this would do on a general stand point? I dont belive it would do enough to do a fair grounds thing but big venues should do fine? venues mean no semi's and no stage set ups. I mean somehow it would have to do almost as well as prog power does ehh??

I know there are thousands of variables and other crazy things to ACTUALLY make this happen BUT
the general idea...... how do you guys thing this would/could work?

DEBATE GO!

 

[Diabolik]

it would only work in a place that holds under at least 1,000. Since it isnt exclusive people would really not be traveling for it. Some cities it would do great but in some it may just do ok.

I think the levels of bands you mentioned are fine but with this type of lineup it is just going to be the same people coming for all of those bands. For it to really work you would almost need a two stage type thing and have one stage for power / trad / prog and another stage for black / death metal. It would really be the only way for something like this to work.

 

[dcowboys311]

it would be a failure.

 

[johan68]

I think the key is promotion. Look at the Tampa scene for example. When Doro and Helstar played you couldn't find any any info on it anywhere and both shows were poorly attended. Then look at the Kreator / Soilwork / Symphony X shows (all separate shows) that were heavily advertised. Full houses.

After the Helstar show I talked to loads of people that said they would have gone if they only knew the fucking thing was happening.

Promote the shit out of it and it will work.

 

[Angrafan]

I think the key is promotion. Look at the Tampa scene for example. When Doro and Helstar played you couldn't find any any info on it anywhere and both shows were poorly attended. Then look at the Kreator / Soilwork / Symphony X shows (all separate shows) that were heavily advertised. Full houses.

After the Helstar show I talked to loads of people that said they would have gone if they only knew the fucking thing was happening.

Promote the shit out of it and it will work.

Maybe so. But horrible examples. The 3 bands that got good crowds are more popular than the 2 that didn't, as simple as that... You could promote the shit out of Helstar, but you ain't getting a SX or Kreator-like Crowd....

 

[dcowboys311]

I think the key is promotion. Look at the Tampa scene for example. When Doro and Helstar played you couldn't find any any info on it anywhere and both shows were poorly attended. Then look at the Kreator / Soilwork / Symphony X shows (all separate shows) that were heavily advertised. Full houses.

After the Helstar show I talked to loads of people that said they would have gone if they only knew the fucking thing was happening.

Promote the shit out of it and it will work.

No it won't.

Let's just take the very minimum from each tier he was talking about: 2 headliners, 3 midcards, 2 openers.

That's seven bands. More than one day of ProgPower.

Power metal bands of headlining caliber tend to have pretty high guarantees. Those midcards probably wouldn't be super cheap other. You'd have to get lots of sponsors on board, and I can't really see Rockstar putting a lot of money into a power metal tour. So, just to meet the guarantee, ticket costs would be high and you'd have to get a good draw at almost every stop.

Also, a show like that would probably start at 3 or 4 in the afternoon. With a steep ticket cost, people aren't going to want to miss any bands, so they'd have to take off from work. That lowers the number of potential attendees even more.

 

[General Zod]

Im thinking like two or three big big power/prog bands in the vein of B.Guardian, Iced Earth, Edguy, Nightwish...

The problem is these bands draw primarily from the same well. Blind Guardian, Nightwish and Iced Earth all play the Nokia when they come to NYC, which holds about 2,000. However, of that 2,000, it's the same 1,500 to 1,700 people showing up for all three shows. So your draw would only go up about 15% to 20%, for this ten band tour, but the cost for the promoter has gone up tenfold.

 

[nomisofsiman]

The problem is these bands draw primarily from the same well. Blind Guardian, Nightwish and Iced Earth all play the Nokia when they come to NYC, which holds about 2,000. However, of that 2,000, it's the same 1,500 to 1,700 people showing up for all three shows. So your draw would only go up about 15% to 20%, for this ten band tour, but the cost for the promoter has gone up tenfold.

This. I completely agree. I just don't see the point in this and it would mean that these bands would lose money by touring together. Look at the festival itself. Glenn has trouble selling it out to begin with lately. With that being said, I don't see how you could expect this to do well. It would be a financial disaster.

I would love for this to happen don't get me wrong, but it's not the right time. The problem with these types of bands and some have touched on it is that they just aren't promoted. People will say, "well the US crowd just doesn't get that genre of metal." I actually disagree. I'm not saying if people knew about this genre of metal, they would glom onto it like they do Slipknot, but the popularity would surge. If the US metal mags promoted this shit, there would be a boost. Just take the prog bands alone. If a lot of the Dream Theater fans knew about a lot of the overseas prog bands, the scene would be more popular. Bottom line? This type of thing will never be truly popular until the metal websites, magazines, popular bands, etc. start promoting these lesser known bands, and I hate to be cynical but it's just never going to happen.

 

[Diabolik]

This. I completely agree. I just don't see the point in this and it would mean that these bands would lose money by touring together. Look at the festival itself. Glenn has trouble selling it out to begin with lately. With that being said, I don't see how you could expect this to do well. It would be a financial disaster.

I would love for this to happen don't get me wrong, but it's not the right time. The problem with these types of bands and some have touched on it is that they just aren't promoted. People will say, "well the US crowd just doesn't get that genre of metal." I actually disagree. I'm not saying if people knew about this genre of metal, they would glom onto it like they do Slipknot, but the popularity would surge. If the US metal mags promoted this shit, there would be a boost. Just take the prog bands alone. If a lot of the Dream Theater fans knew about a lot of the overseas prog bands, the scene would be more popular. Bottom line? This type of thing will never be truly popular until the metal websites, magazines, popular bands, etc. start promoting these lesser known bands, and I hate to be cynical but it's just never going to happen.

This is very true.....I work with a few fantatical Dream Theater fans and I was telling them about other prog bands and they had no clue this style of music even exist. I even asked them about just doing a google search on the topic even. To them it was never important to reach out for new music and just to sit until something was shown to them. So there are lots of people who would really like the power metal genre just that there is no force behind it letting people know it is there. Not that tons more would be all over it, just that there would be more interest in it than there is.

 

[nomisofsiman]

This is very true.....I work with a few fantatical Dream Theater fans and I was telling them about other prog bands and they had no clue this style of music even exist. I even asked them about just doing a google search on the topic even. To them it was never important to reach out for new music and just to sit until something was shown to them. So there are lots of people who would really like the power metal genre just that there is no force behind it letting people know it is there. Not that tons more would be all over it, just that there would be more interest in it than there is.

Indeed. You bring up another good point. While most people on here are very interested in seeking out new bands, most people aren't. They don't want to search for new bands and instead wait for them to be presented to them.

 

[Stingray11214]

The other problem is that the US does not have many power/prog metal bands. How do you have a solid scene if the vast majority of these bands need a passport to come in? The reality is that there is little support for the power/prog scene on the local level. Let's be real, other than the people on this board, how many have heard of Suspyre? Odin's Court? Halcyon Way? Katagory V and Seven Kingdoms? Hell, even Helstar and Manilla Road have long pedigrees, and few have heard of them. The key is supporting your local metal scene. As long as we wait with baited breath for Whoseorwhatsits from Moldova at the expense of supporting Zandelle and Operatika, the scene will always be underground.

 

[Metal_Camden]

Haha ya as I figured it's mostly far fetch'd. But how awesome would that be AND if it did what would the touring lineup look like??

 

[nomisofsiman]

Haha ya as I figured it's mostly far fetch'd. But how awesome would that be AND if it did what would the touring lineup look like??

Btw, I would think Symphony X would be one of the top tier bands. If I had my way this is what the lineup would be.

1. Blind Guardian
2. Symphony X
3. Epica
4. Pagan's Mind
5. Circle II Circle
6. Sinbreed
7. Triosphere

 

[FleshAndBloodTheocracy]

The other problem is that the US does not have many power/prog metal bands. How do you have a solid scene if the vast majority of these bands need a passport to come in? The reality is that there is little support for the power/prog scene on the local level. Let's be real, other than the people on this board, how many have heard of Suspyre? Odin's Court? Halcyon Way? Katagory V and Seven Kingdoms? Hell, even Helstar and Manilla Road have long pedigrees, and few have heard of them. The key is supporting your local metal scene. As long as we wait with baited breath for Whoseorwhatsits from Moldova at the expense of supporting Zandelle and Operatika, the scene will always be underground.

Hell, most people I know haven't even heard of Nightwish, Iced Earth, Blind Guardian, or Kamelot.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

Btw, I would think Symphony X would be one of the top tier bands. If I had my way this is what the lineup would be.

1. Blind Guardian
2. Symphony X
3. Epica
4. Pagan's Mind
5. Circle II Circle
6. Sinbreed
7. Triosphere

I would personally LOVE that lineup, but I don't think there's that much of a draw from 3 down to get people interested enough. I don't have any solutions on how to "fix" it, but when I saw the draws for Pagans/Strato & Primal Fear, I was appalled at the relatively low turnout. Both examples were fun shows for me, but the draws weren't what I expected for weekend gigs. If you're going to tour this, you better be able to make people get out to a few mid-week shows along the way, and unfortunately, I don't think this lineup would attract Joe Average metal fan. Just MHO, like I said, I'd take off of work for a mid-week show with this lineup.

 

[nomisofsiman]

I would personally LOVE that lineup, but I don't think there's that much of a draw from 3 down to get people interested enough. I don't have any solutions on how to "fix" it, but when I saw the draws for Pagans/Strato & Primal Fear, I was appalled at the relatively low turnout. Both examples were fun shows for me, but the draws weren't what I expected for weekend gigs. If you're going to tour this, you better be able to make people get out to a few mid-week shows along the way, and unfortunately, I don't think this lineup would attract Joe Average metal fan. Just MHO, like I said, I'd take off of work for a mid-week show with this lineup.

I would say more 4 down, because from what I've heard Epica typically does fairly well at their shows. However, my list had nothing to do with whether or not it would be successful financially. It's just if this were to happen, that's the lineup I'd prefer.

 

[Jibrille]

The problem is that many of these headliners can fill a place like Palladium outside of Boston on their own but they might not pull 500 people in other locations. Tossing more bands that draw from pretty much the same pool of fans won't make them suddenly fill larger venues. It'll just make a longer show with a more expensive ticket price for the people who'd already go to see a band like Blind Guardian and Nightwish anyway. It'd be good exposure for the lower tier bands but does nothing for the headliners.

 

[skyrefuge]

It'd be good exposure for the lower tier bands but does nothing for the headliners.

But, if we're comparing to Mayhem/Ozzfest, is the role of the lower-tier bands to actually draw more people in? My impression was that the point of the lower-tier bands was to pay a buy-on to the tour, to actually *help* make the whole thing financially feasible; if that's true, adding bands would actually make the ticket prices *less* expensive. The idea is that the lower-tier bands bankroll the tour in exchange for a chance at exposure.

Of course in the power metal world, the lower-tier bands/labels don't have any money to contribute, so this scheme really wouldn't work there.

(disclaimer: most of my knowledge of the Ozzfest finances comes from Bruce Dickinson rants, so should be taken with a large grain of salt.)

Neil

 

[skyrefuge]

Oh, and this thread reminded me of the "Evil Darkness Tour". That should be coming to an arena near me sometime soon, right?

Neil

 

[ratanda]

Haha ya as I figured it's mostly far fetch'd. But how awesome would that be AND if it did what would the touring lineup look like??

It wouldn't be very awesome to everyone involved that lost a load of money putting it on